Team Sarantium Diplomacy

[UnOrthOdOx]

Our Friends the Mercenaries,

In the wake of apparent misunderstanding by both sides through our recent communications, I want to make a clear statement that we would like to continue friendly relations based upon respect and mutual benefit.

We plan on making use of your services through the course of this history. You will have things to sell and we will have wherewithal with which to buy it.

I well understand your situation with the last effort at making a deal... time moved on and it was no longer of the same benefit to you. That's business and we understand that. We bear no bad feelings based on that.

Please accept our well wishes and our desire to find ways in which to promote our friendship and future business relationships.

Golden Bear, Official Representative of the Imperial Democracy of Sarantium

We have a new diplomat from Sarantium.


Based on my history with Aidun from other games, this means more than likely I have pissed off Aidun to where he just don't want to talk to me anymore. He's been this way with me ever since a particular PBEM (not only did I beat him, but made the person who was goign to give him shelter very clear that doing so would mean war as well, they ended up killing his settlers off, I don't do vassals), gets mad after I don't agree to his initial deal and simply goes off thinking "UnO's impossible to deal with".


Just FYI, you guys may as well know some of the history as it may play a part in diplomacy with them.

[polarnomad]

Perhaps it is better this way. Golden Bear's tone is much more pleasant.

[OzzyKP]

Looks good. Too bad the deal fell through, scouting their land would have been a great benefit itself. But as long as they don't have any hard feelings over it (besides Aiden i suppose) then it is all good.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Greetings Uno. I am back to Apolyton after a long absence dealing with a number of life changes. I have retired, moved, and am helping my family look after my Dad who is fading mentally. Just getting back into Poly and Civ now. Heven't had the chance to play a lot of Civ4 either. In catch-up mode.

I wanted to say Hi, see how you are doing, and try to open up some communications between our two teams in this demo game. You know what my position was regarding the Mercenary team concept before the game, but now that the concept has been accepted by the majority, and the game underway, that is all history. Besides, more than half a year away has mellowed my perspective.

So, from reading the various communication and discussion threads, it would appear that we had an early deal on the table, but our 'waffling' killed it. It is also clear that in the early game, when trading is limited, it is more dificult to fully utilize a "payment-for-service" approach. That being said, I was wondering if we could start to explore some potential contracts.

Also, given the current voting on communications in the public forum, have you given any thought to a newspaper yet? I would always be willing to contribute editorial content.

Anyways, trust all is well. Good to be back. And good to have you as neighbours.

Cheers! ...Beta.

[UnOrthOdOx]

It's good to see you around again, Beta.

I am sorry to hear about your Father. I, too, am preparing for a few life changes as we prepare for the 3rd addition to the dOx household in April. A lot of house remodelling and reorganizing has and is happening.

As you may know, October is always a busy time for me, and I have been away most of the month, in fact, you're lucky you caught me now. I'll be mostly away till Nov 2nd or so. (see my signature for details if you want)

Team Mercenary is happy to open up negotiations. It is our nature after all. We never considered them closed, but as you mention, it's a little hard to engage in things right now. In case you haven't already, I would like to point out we have a Standard Pricing and FAQ thread here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=155125

It should answer a lot of the questions you might have over what would be possible. We will not be engaging in a "do this now for payment when it's possible" type situation as it has the potential for far too much abuse on both sides.

Team Mercenary, at this time, would be interested in an information exchange up to and including an exchange of screenshots (as they have been approved).

We are also open to any ideas you may have for contracts as well.

As for the paper, again, if you hadn't noticed, I always take a sabbatical this time of year, and haven't really given it thought. But, given both my personal and the Team Mercenary on MZO's history with attempting any kind of light roleplay such as a paper, and seeing the reactions of folks that are in this game on certain other unnamed team(s) to that in the past.... no I don't think I'll be starting a paper.

UnOrthOdOx
Team Mercenary Representative

[UnOrthOdOx]

Hi UnO. Thanks for your resonse. I was waiting until after Halloween to respond as I understand that it is a big event around your household. Also, I had an in-law family trip to do to New Brunswick - a 950km drive. Just back this week.

OK, I have read your pricing thread and it makes sense to me. What I would like to put on the table for discussion is a tech trade proposal. We obviously cannot trade techs until Alphabet, but if we reach that time and have both researched the same techs, we will have both missed an opportunity. What I am proposing is a two stage tech deal which would see you, or us, bee line for Alphabet and Currency, while the other team researches different techs with the understanding that we will trade at two or more points. The first stage would see one team doing Writing and Alphabet, and the other doing two other techs to be agreed upon. These techs would be traded as soon as possible upon the researching of Alphabet. The second stage would involve one of us doing Math and Currency - we could trade after each of those is discovered, or upon the discovery of currency. That would wrap up 8 key techs for both of us, with no duplication of effort.

That is the general idea; I believe it has merits and hope we can discuss it further.

Also, as you mentioned a border agreement a while back, and now that we both know the areas in between us, now is probably the time to start talking about it so we can negate any future misunderstandings as we both expand outward.

Please let me know regarding the above. If we are going to hammer out any details, it might be best to do it via chat. I am easy either way.

Trust all is well with team merc, and with RL. (btw - how soon before the new family member is due?)

Cheers! Beta.

[Kloreep]

This might work. I don't recall the exact prices for Alphabet and Writing before it, but IW is a heavy tech that should be acceptable for trade, and we can get other stuff.

Question is, do we want to go for this? This would be a pretty long-term commitment. In general I think such long-term tech trades would only constrain us; however, I doubt we're going to get much work before Alphabet, nor do I think we'd want it, so this one might be okay.

I'd feel better about it if we had a border negotiated with them, or at least a minimum of our area secured, which isn't going to happen till at least the fourth city founding since we're going for the ponies now.

[Octavian X]

The idea of a long term research agreement is certainly tempting. If Sarantium was willing to pick up the alphabet/currency beeline, it would make the deal more appealing, since that would leave our end of the bargain more flexible to our needs.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Alright, I'll form a response tonight/tomorrow.

[Kloreep]

A border agreement would also be good, particularly with us sending the next settler south, leaving the eastern area (around our axe and their warrior) open to the sort of grab we were contemplating making with Sarantium's area.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Greetings Beta,

Sorry for my delay in responding, it's been a rough week at work.

We agree in principle to the tech trade idea. However, there is the matter of the 'techs to be named'. To be frank, Team Merc is in a better position to research the "other" techs. We need to know what you need, however, before we can commit to such a thing. I propose an exchange of knowledge now, what each team has and what we are both researching currently.

Also, on the border agreement, we are willing to discuss such a thing, but suggest a screenshot exchange first that both team may be on the same page. I believe this would be valuable to both teams.

There is also a possibility of setting up trade(s) over the short term, should you have any ports open, or opening soon.

We look forward to a profitable future

-UnOrthOdOx
Mercenary Team Representative

(baby due in early April, but given our history, it wil be mid-early march)

[UnOrthOdOx]

Uno

Many thanks for your reply. We too are looking forward to mutually beneficial dealings.

We are OK with the disclosure of tech information - in fact, it is necessary to come up with the best research plan for both our teams. However, we need to have agreement on one thing first; I suspect it was implied but we need to confirm it. Being:

"Neither Team Merc or Sarantium will reveal the other team's tech status nor the details of any agreement between us, to a another team."

If that is Ok by you, please confirm, as we will, and I will get our information to you and vice versa. Not meaning to rush here, but I am concerned that we may both be researching the same tech, and are both thus losing an opportunity as each turn goes by.

Thanks and cheers ...Beta.

UnOrthOdOx wrote on 12-11-2006 09:11:
Greetings Beta,

Sorry for my delay in responding, it's been a rough week at work.

We agree in principle to the tech trade idea. However, there is the matter of the 'techs to be named'. To be frank, Team Merc is in a better position to research the "other" techs. We need to know what you need, however, before we can commit to such a thing. I propose an exchange of knowledge now, what each team has and what we are both researching currently.

Also, on the border agreement, we are willing to discuss such a thing, but suggest a screenshot exchange first that both team may be on the same page. I believe this would be valuable to both teams.

There is also a possibility of setting up trade(s) over the short term, should you have any ports open, or opening soon.

We look forward to a profitable future

-UnOrthOdOx
Mercenary Team Representative

(baby due in early April, but given our history, it wil be mid-early march)

Team Mercenary agrees to not reveal the tech situation of Team Sarantium in return for Team Sarantium not revealing the tech situation of Team Mercenary.

[UnOrthOdOx]

UnO and Team Mercenary:

Thanks for your quick reply.

To start, Team Sarantium also agrees to not reveal the tech situation of Team Mercenary in return for Team Mercenary not revealing the tech situation of Team Sarantium.

Our situation is that we have researched or discovered all techs on the first two tiers of the tech ladder except for Agriculture, Sailing, Polytheism, and Masonry. We are currently researching Bronze Working on the third tier.

Therefore, in addition to the proposed future trade regarding Writing and Alphabet, any tech trade which helps our respective teams 'fill in the blanks' would be worthy of consideration.

If you would detail your situation now, I am sure we can arrive at the best arrangement for both teams.

Regards...Beta.

PS - I am out of town until Tuesday evening, so please direct your reply to Aidun, conmcb25, as well as me. Many thanks.

I'll open the save and look at it tonight unless one of you care to fill me in.

[Kloreep]

So that means Sarantium has:
Fishing
The Wheel
Hunting
Mysticism
Mining
Pottery
Animal Husbandry
Archery
Meditation

On the first tier, we have discovered everything except Mysticism (that's Fishing, The Wheel, Agriculture, and Hunting). Other techs we have discovered are Pottery, Animal Husbandry, and Bronze Working.

Techs Sarantium has that we don't: Mysticism (71), Archery (85), Meditation (114)
Techs we have that Sarantium doesn't: Agriculture (85), Bronze Working* (171)
*Sarantium currently researching
The beaker sizes listed in the game are displayed in parentheses. It looks like we could trade Agriculture for Archery. Mysticism and Meditation we don't really have much use for at the moment... this still requires us to get to Alphabet, though. Writing is 171 beakers, Alphabet is 429 (combined=600 beakers). Iron Working is 286 beakers. Perhaps we could research HBR (357 beakers) for a total of 643 beakers and ask Sarantium to consider a small IOU in future tech trades. Alternately, one team could research Writing+Alphabet (600) while the other researches Metal Casting (643).

I'm assuming Sarantium is going to research BW rather than wait the great span of time it would take to get to Alphabet so they can trade us for it.

[UnOrthOdOx]

UnO and Team Merc.

So, to develop the initial agreement, we would propose the following:

Team Sarantium supplies to Team Mercenary:

Writing (171)
Alpha (429)
Mysticism (71)
Archery (85)
Meditation (114)

TOTAL:870

In return, Team mercenary supplies to Team Sarantium:

Agriculture (85)
Iron Working (286)

TOTAL: 371

Difference is 500.

So, techs you would research. We propose Horse Back Riding (357), and you would owe us some credits, or Metal Casting (643), and we would owe you. Something along those lines. We would like to know your thoughts on this.

Some other points: we are going to finish bronze working, as we are not willing to wait until the discovery and trade of Alphabet to to achieve it. We will research writing and alphabet immediately thereafter.

The trade would start to occur as soon as we have completed Alphabet. I say 'start' as some techs are pre-requisites for others (eg writing and alphabet), and I am not sure they can be transerred in the same turn. If yes, then it all happens at once.

(In saying this - I am also asking Kloreep and E_T to inform us if exchanging a pile of techs in one turn will be obvious to the others through the score. If so, is there some merit in spacing the exchange out to 'smooth out' the score increase, and disguise the transaction?)

We should also discuss some form of no-trade clause to ensure that the traded techs are not immediately passed to a third party for profit or trade.

I thinks that's it for now. Looking to hear back.

regards ..Beta.

I replied that yes the score will be immediately adjusted on tech trades, just to let them know.

I would advocate the metal casting route, myself.