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while not dismissing your proposal, we can't find the time needed to reach a proper discussion. Also, we fail to see the urgency of doing this mid-turn. Could you continue, assuming we're still at war, while we get the time to think on this? This way, we can have a thought-through response, with more of our members commenting.
Whether you attack, and perhaps even kill Grog won't affect our decision. We assure you that we wouldn't seek revenge at all. However, at this point in time we're unwilling to sign a cease-fire just to give us the possibility of talking, and we don't want to get pressed in taking such a far-reaching decision either.
We are discussing your proposal, though, and you should get a response in the next few days. Just not in the next few hours...
Although would it be better to make more of a point about us not actually wanting them to attack Grog? - currently it sounds very much like we don't care if they do attack him. I don't want them to attack grog... we want him to stay there for line of sight on their capital.
Perhaps insert:
"..and perhaps even kill Grog won't affect our decision. Although we would advise you for your own sake not to mess with him - he is a fierce fighter and has the advantage of higher ground. Still, we are at war, and knew that you might attack Grog if he went back to the gold hill, and so we wouldn't seek revenge if you did so. However..."
Summary:
- They don't want to lose and feel we have the advantage.
- They claim not to have BW or AH as of yet.
- I conclude we can press the issue and if we win, great. If things go against us peace will be an option.
Donegeal
Hi there1 nye
hello Donegeal
The boss is still letting me use the computer... nye
-heh Donegeal
First off, I'm soory if we put you guys on the spot. I tried to say so in my letter by saying that we understand this is not a quick or easy choice to make. Donegeal
man.. how do I change this so its just Donegeal and not my e-mail? nye
i'm not sure nye
in the windows messanger window. Options Donegeal
If your too busy, we can try this later... nye
now is fine. i don;t think you should sit on the turn. nye
we are wondering why you would send the message now, not last turn, or after the turn Donegeal
Not looking good then, huh? Well just just hadn't made up our mind about attacking yet. Didn't.... oh, thats easy... Donegeal
We sent it after we had explored your land. With us moving to 99 of the Eye, we have your city mapped. If we did it before then and you escepted, we would be allowed to come near. Donegeal
er I mean we wouldn't be allowed near... nye
i see Donegeal
and like I said, we are now fased with the choice of actually hurting you. But if you were to be our allies, we wouldn't want to do so. nye
that is appreciated, however we know the costs of war and we accept them. Donegeal
So it would be looking like your answer is no, right? nye
that is the way it is running. nye
i should ask, what you folks have in mind for borders though Donegeal
All right then. Let me try to convince otherwise. Donegeal
Oh... I hadn't thought of actual borders yet. That wasn't the way I was seeing it. nye
ok Donegeal
As in Civ 4 there is no corruption, so how close a city is is not as important. I know that maint is increased, but that is all Donegeal
In a case where I have an 'Ally', the borders would be determind by whatever would be best for the both of us. Donegeal
Everything comes down to a matter of trust. If you think you can trust us, then what difference to city placement make other than maximizing production and commerce? Donegeal
As a show of trust, ask away any question you have. I'd be happy to answer. nye
i don't know if i should take advantage of that given the direction of opinion in GS. Donegeal
Ok... your a good man for admitting that. nye
however, if you are willing, have you discovered ah or bw? Donegeal
nope nye
ok Donegeal
not yet anyway... Donegeal
I figured you go for the gusto... nye
of course. do you fancy your chances vs Grog? Donegeal
Nope. We have a 24.9% chance of success. But we do have another unit nearby to finish the job. nye
ce le guerre, or some such Donegeal
er... whatever that means.... nye
so war goes nye
such is war Donegeal
ah... nye
prolly spelled it wrong nye
you can set your handle in the Options tab of the MSM main window Donegeal
Anyway... want to know why I did this? (I am the current voice of Vox and defacto leader...) nye
the one where you see me online nye
yes, i am curious about why you did this Donegeal
Vox is in a tight spot. We know this, you know this, hell, Snoopy and Aeson know this. I don't think Vox can win against GS at this point. GS can win agaist Vox, but its going to take alot of time and alot of units. Donegeal
The way I see it, peace is more beneficial to both our teams at this point becuse the gain of one city for GS would be chump change compared to the kind of benefits that our two team could have by working together. nye
you are doing the right thing given the circumstances. completely understandable nye
i would be doing the same were the situations reversed Donegeal
I just see no benefit to continueing this war, for either of us. nye
i hope there are no hard feelings, but i don;t agree at this point nye
personally. the team may come to another decision but that will take time Donegeal
Ok, now I ask for some info from you, (don't feel obligated to tell me though): What good can come from this war? nye
may i answer with questions of my own? Donegeal
Sure nye
who has the advantage in this war? Donegeal
You do. But it is not a big enough advantage at this point to make it worth while. Donegeal
It will just take far too long to accomplish. nye
ok. who has the advantage(s) in peace? Donegeal
We both do. We can coodinate research, figure out how to arange borders so there are no resource problems...ets... Donegeal
the advantages that we both get are almost limitless... nye
you are the voice now? Donegeal
Yes. nye
what about when another is the voice, and decides that we would be better dead after your religion is in all our cities and you can see everything we are doing, and we have massive ww when at war with the holy city? Donegeal
If we ally, I don't see that happening. What would the benefits be to going to war against a long term friend? nye
we are very close to each other, and your team may be open to people who are less than stable nye
the problem is that we have no control, and no room for error Donegeal
I could say the excat same thing about your team. However, like I have said, it's a matter of trust. nye
true, but our style is consensus. Vox is a small team and subject to wild swings due to who is active at the time nye
this is my thinking, btw. Donegeal
sure, I understand. nye
not necessarily shared by all on GS Donegeal
Vox was like you described, but we are much more stable now. We have a very active Voice, and two ther very active players. Donegeal
And like I have said, it all comes down to a matter of trust. nye
officially, i can tell you that there will not be a favourable response to your request within 48 hours, so there is no need to sit on the save Donegeal
Hmmm.... ok, I'll take that to my team and will finish the turn tommarow after work. nye
i understand what you are saying, Don. However it also comes down to what we consider to be the best course of action for GS Donegeal
I am SO glad you brought that up NYE. If we are allies, then what do you think the 'best course of action' would be for Vox? nye
i don't know enough to say nye
but researching Writing, right now, would be good. Donegeal
I'll say it for you: The best course of action for Vox would be to help GS. Donegeal Donegeal
Its on our 'to do' list... nye
Lego once thought that the best course of action was to ally with GoW and ND. I wonder what they think of that now? Donegeal
They did so because GoW out manuvered GS diplomaticly. nye
Of course. The end result is not changed though Donegeal
(always thought GoW should have stood for Glory of Writting...) nye
heh Donegeal
Hindshight is always 20-20. nye
of course Donegeal
And this is a much different game. Donegeal
No way can an empire like that fall in one turn. nye
true, but fall it still can Donegeal
Anyway... these are matter far into the future. By the time situation like that arise, GS/Vox would be as solid as GoW/ND. nye
how much land do we have? Donegeal
It all comes down to trust. Donegeal
er... not sure. There is room for at least 2, maybe 3 really good cities to our E. nye
are we alone on Bob, or is this map Aeson's snicker at Vox and GS on Stormia again? Donegeal
It sure would be a snicker... but if we are alone, then alling would be the best route. Donegeal
(hell, even if ther is someone else here alling is the best route...) Donegeal
You mentioned earlier about Hinduism spreading to your cities. If you trust us, what difference would that make? nye
how much land is there to your East? nye
trusting you is not the same as trusting whoever else might become the voice in the future, Don nye
is calling you Don OK? Donegeal
Crap... I don't know. Like I said, 2-3 solid city placements. Not sure about number of tiles... Donegeal
Don's fine. Much eaiser than that missspelling I have as a name... nye
i would like to say that there is nothing personal in this war. from my point of view it is just the right move for GS. Donegeal
I know. Nothing personal here either. I just see that there is SO much more potential in being allies rather than enemies. nye
'creppy little *****es' had a lot of us laughing Donegeal
Here is another big possible factor in being allies.... Donegeal
huh? nye
in your reply to the war and the dead scout. you called us 'creepy little *****es' Donegeal
did I? Hmmm... I wrote that VERY late in my shift and was VERY tired by the end... nye
it was well written Donegeal
Ah... thanks... Donegeal
anyway... big factor" Donegeal
factor: nye
ok Donegeal
If you choose war, how are you going to compete with other teams that choose peace and frienship? nye
if we win, we will be fine nye
if not, we will be dead Donegeal
If you choose war, I don't see how you could loose. But I also don't see how you'd be able to compete with teams that made friends with their first contact. They would be so far ahead in tech than you that the'y be able to walk over you. nye
it depends a lot on the map Donegeal
Vox is just not worth the effort. Donegeal
Minimal benefit compared to tremendous benefit. All it takes is trust. Donegeal
You mentioed GoW/ND. Look at what they accomplished. And it all happened becuause of trust. nye
point noted nye
as i said, Don, we could decide to go that way. it just won;t be very soon. Donegeal
Yeah... just realize that the longer this war goes on, the farther behind you/we become. Its a dog eat dog world out there and I'd rather be a dog catcher... nye
heh. ok Donegeal
Does this thing auto log? nye
File... Save As nye
if you close the window, it's gone Donegeal
Sorry for the delay... I'm getting my stuff together for work... nye
np Donegeal
Anyway... Personally, I'm in a 'no loose' situation. If we go the route of Allies, my team will have a chance to win. If we stay at war, well then I get to be a thorn in GS's side until they kill us. And once that happens, I get to join them and be a thorn on the inside!!! nye
heh nye
it would be good to have a mad king Donegeal
What a schorcher outside today! heat index of 117 F and I'm out there landscaping with rocks! nye
that's hot. Donegeal
I think I'm not quite so mad anymore... nye
why did they give you the name? it was earned? Donegeal
but I'd get to play the part of Beta being all locked up in a dungeon... Donegeal
No... I got to be turn player for GoW once. I invaded ND with a warrior we were scouting with. Trip had just done the same thing to us so I figured "what the hell" and did it to them. I didn't ask and it almost ruined the whole thing... I had to go to their forum and apoligise... nye
ahh, and they blamed it on your madness. i see. good story Donegeal
Glory of Writting! Donegeal
(I was also banned from playing the turn) nye
figured that would be part of it. must be a real kick to be more erratic than Farb. Donegeal
I wasn't, but guess who came up with the idea? nye
haha! Donegeal
Ok... so do you have any other questions? nye
not really. have a good shift and take care Donegeal
Die scum nye
:E nye
those are my fangs Donegeal
ok... one last time. How do i save? nye
File... Save As Donegeal
Thanks. Talk to you later... scum nye
buh bye
Last edited by notyoueither; July 31, 2006, 22:38.
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Originally posted by notyoueither
Why is Don asking you to chat, DeepO?
They've been told I am the contact.
Now they're pissing me off.
I don't know... I haven't sent a single PM to anyone outside our team in this game. But Don's in my buddy's list, so perhaps I'm in his too. Or otherwise he was stalking our forum, and saw me posting a few posts in quick succesion. These are about the only spot where the 'hide your bulb' thing doesn't work.
I also gained a bit of respect for Donegeal - he certainly seemed very frank and honest (though I guess that could be put on). He's definitely playing this the same way I would if I were in position - knows they are losing, tries to point out the long term benefits of an alliance, grasping at any way out of his situation.
Still, nye made it clear to him just where we are negotiating from: a position of strength.
(my opinion)
Short term, our advantage only grows, so on with the war!
I must say things are looking well on our part . I too think we are to keep our position of strength in our relations with Vox. Of course as long as we have real advantage and we're not risking pretty much nothing this is a no-brainer: maintain the state of war and keep the pressure on Vox's territory.
What we do need now is some sort of assessment on the risks/gains of war versus peace/alliance in the next 10-20-50 turns and beyond. Also, since we have time on our hands, and we're not handling a crisis (unlike Vox perhaps) we would well if we comprise an action plan for war, perhaps with a crude timeline to winning this thing.
Anyway, in case I'll be going back to lurking (army service is such a drag, though fortunately I'm quite safe from the growing fighting in the north) I'd say this:
Good job, good luck- and long live Stormia!
Save the rainforests!
Join the us today and say NO to CIV'ers chopping jungles
Looking at the situation with a fresh pair of eyes, I agree with the general consensus regarding relative strengths, and the advantages of war vs. peace (in case that’s of any comfort ). That said, is there really any reason why we shouldn't discuss what the terms of a peace deal might be? Given how early in the game we are I suppose there’s not too much we’re able to trade, but unless there are simply no terms under which we would except peace then what's the harm in opening up the dialog (as long as we're careful what we say)?
Originally posted by zeit
Anyway, in case I'll be going back to lurking (army service is such a drag, though fortunately I'm quite safe from the growing fighting in the north) I'd say this:
Good job, good luck- and long live Stormia!
Good to see you, zeit. And stay out of harm's way!
). That said, is there really any reason why we shouldn't discuss what the terms of a peace deal might be? Given how early in the game we are I suppose there’s not too much we’re able to trade, but unless there are simply no terms under which we would except peace then what's the harm in opening up the dialog (as long as we're careful what we say)?
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