Your Start

[NicodaMax]

Had we had access to a 2g tile (thus producing 3) I would be pushing to go for a religion, but with only 10g (11 bpt) the chances are 1 or 2 will have more bpt than us, 2 or 3 with the same and 1 or 2 with less.

I haven't actually done the statistical analysis* but from experience i'd say that on average there are 1.5 civs with 11g, 4.5 with 10g and 1.5 with only 9. This comes from setting up about 50 games with the same civs, map size, etc. as the demogame. Funny thing is, I always beat the AI to meditation in those SP games.

Thing is, IMHO, with 10g we have a chance at early religion, but, as Krill pointed out, if we move the settler to the ph the probability drops to almost zero.

*To quote FP, "80% of all statistics are made up"

[Arrian]

41 and 63 look to be plains forests (I can't say for sure, but they defintely look like it).

-Arrian

[Arrian]

I'm willing to ditch early religion to settle on the plains hill.

-Arrian

[asleepathewheel]

nice start

[Krill]

41 and 63 look to be plains forests (I can't say for sure, but they defintely look like it).

They look like that, but we can't be certain of what, if any, specials they contain.

[Krill]

Also, call me a psychic , but we may have this weekend, and next weekend to sim stuff out...

[notyoueither]

There's pretty severe health implications from settling on the plains hill in NM's scenario. The health limit is 2 pop (ick +1 from pop, +3 fp; health +1 trees, +2 water, +2 diff) for a net 5h over 4 ick at 1 pop.

Settling on the start tile has a health limit of 4 pop (ick +1 from pop, +2 fp; health +2 trees, water and diff) for a net 6h over 3 ick at 1 pop.

Getting that extra hammer could be very important early, but the health limit is a real killer.

I think I would move the warrior 2 and the settler 8 no matter what the warrior sees. Then we will be able to make the best decision because we will have all the information.

If there are more trees for the plain-hill site, and maybe less fp (to get the health into line with the starting tile) then I would settle there. If there are no more trees, and the fp are overwhelming, then we can go back to the start and settle on turn 2. Either way, we will be making the best decision.

[notyoueither]

The cost of scouting is 3f, 1sh, and 10com. The potential gain in shields over the first 50 turns is 48.

Turning 3f and 10com into 48 shields is almost a no brainer... if the cost is not too high (health limits knackering us) and if the warrior doesn't see something compelling (like a cow at 2 2).

Edit: 10com , not 2.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Metaliturtle


I agree with solomwi, that warrior needs to go 2 and prontwo!

to Solomwi for excellence in strategy of opening moveage. Even though he wasn't the first to propose this idea, I hereby declare every move 2 as a "Solomwi Sammich"

... man I've got a Demogame jones again

Yeah, I skimmed the thread while posting, and found DeepO's identical suggestion, so I decided to leave mine as is and lend whatever weight I may have two it, two.

[NicodaMax]

I'm sorry notyoueither, but I'm a little lost here due to terminology/lack of experience (?). Could you explain a few things to me (hope I wont have to ask for this too often )

Originally posted by notyoueither
...The health limit is 2 pop (ick +1 from pop, +3 fp; health +1 trees, +2 water, +2 diff) for a net 5h over 4 ick at 1 pop.

Settling on the start tile has a health limit of 4 pop (ick +1 from pop, +2 fp; health +2 trees, water and diff) for a net 6h over 3 ick at 1 pop.

What is ick?
and why are we talking in terms of 5h vs 6h at 1 pop?
I gather from what you're saying that in terms of health and production in the long run it'd be better to settle right where we are instead of the ph?

[NicodaMax]

btw, are we in favour of having Snoopy split the warrior and settler for all the teams? It could be very relevant to where that warrior is moved (if moved at all)

[ruby_maser]

Originally posted by NicodaMax
I'm sorry notyoueither, but I'm a little lost here due to terminology/lack of experience (?).

I agree that some of the terminology might be unintentionally exclusionary to greenhorns like myself. Defining an abbreviation in parentheses the first time its used in a post might be a way to avoid confusion. I'll pick it up pretty fast from there.

(In truth, I don't even have Civ4 yet as the system requirements are prohibitive with my current computer, which is why I hoped to lend my support in the diplomatic arena when the time came).

That said, from a Civ3 point of view, I'm excited about this start. From a Civ4 point of view, I'm excited about this start?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by NicodaMax
I'm sorry notyoueither, but I'm a little lost here due to terminology/lack of experience (?). Could you explain a few things to me (hope I wont have to ask for this too often )

...The health limit is 2 pop (ick +1 from pop, +3 fp; health +1 trees, +2 water, +2 diff) for a net 5h over 4 ick at 1 pop.

Settling on the start tile has a health limit of 4 pop (ick +1 from pop, +2 fp; health +2 trees, water and diff) for a net 6h over 3 ick at 1 pop.

What is ick?
and why are we talking in terms of 5h vs 6h at 1 pop?
I gather from what you're saying that in terms of health and production in the long run it'd be better to settle right where we are instead of the ph?

Sorry.

An ick is an ill health point which comes from population, buildings and quantities of floodplains. H is an abbreviation for health.

You start at zero and count up the points of health to determine your health limit. Then each pop adds an ick towards that limit. When the icks reach the limit, each additional pop will consume an extra food (for r_m).

So 6h over 3ick at 1 pop gives a health limit of 4 pop.

We can go beyond the health limit if we build on the plains hill, but we'll have to farm fps to create a food surplus to get more than one mined hill, unless... there are more trees up north or there is a bit less fp than you have.

[NicodaMax]

I'm getting it, thanks. I was using h to abbreviate hammers, hence my confusion.
I've never taken health issues into much consideration when playing so the subject is pretty much new to me (maybe i'd play better if I did ). I'm not on my computer today, so I'll have to check it out on the scenario tomorrow. I find it hard to do the production math (health, food, gold, hammers, etc) without the game itself. Much easier to sim out a couple of turns...
Seems we have time though...

[notyoueither]

Settling in the fp, building warrior/scout/worker/worker/skirmisher/settler/Oracle