Spartan academy revisited

[DeepO]

Last of these general threads from me for tonight, but this is something we should start discussin early on as well.

In the previous game, our spartan academy never really worked like intended. Not that we were in chaos, but the way it was set up (minister of war being ultimately responsible) didn't really suit us... we kind of diverted from that track, even if Aeson became our ad hoc general later on.

So, Why not change it around a bit: have the Spartan academy again, but this time with someone heading it who has no operational input: he only collects and creates long-term, strategic plans. These could be our general invasion plans (i.e. the previous Lego attack plans: started planning a year in advance), or our global defensive capabilities, or some thing like that. By organising this on a higher level, so to speak, we can free the turnplayer from too much thinking while playing the turn.

turnplayer tactical discussions/decisions, Minister of War strategic discussions/decisions I'd say. Unless one person wants to combine both jobs

DeepO

[Solomwi]

Good idea, DeepO.

If I understand correctly, you're thinking of a sort of General Staff setup? Would be interesting, if we have the time and participation, to develop a set of contingency/invasion plans to have on hand, for updating and revisiting as the game progresses. Of course, if someone were to see our forum that shouldn't, that would create a bit of a headache for the diplomats, but it could also go a long way in our benefit.

[DeepO]

Solomwi, we did something like that in most eras of the last game, and I'm sure it will continue.

What I see a general has to do more than normal members here, is that he needs to keep it organized, so that we don't fall into gaps as we simply forgot to plan for a certain possibility.

What I also would like to improve upon, is the coupling between the Spartan scholia, and Smith's: last time, you more or less needed to be in both, as half the military plans were built around last-minute F1-hacks, and precision MMing. Plans sometimes changed dramatically during a turn...

Now, with CIV, that amount of MMing is not possible/needed anymore. Which means a better separation of the two should be possible... some people simply thinking on the level of: "the Mercs are going to invade us, what kind of army do we have to get, and where to put it, so that we don't get damaged?". Others thinking of: "We need 15 Spears in 20 turns, how do we build them?". Still others thinking of "15 spears to use... where do we put them on the map?".

The general idea is to make the Spartan academy more a strategical/tactical level, where Diplo is strategic, the KGB is strategical/operational, and Smith's is operational.

In reality, the discussions will mix, of course. But some kind of structure can help us here...

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BTW, please shut me up when too much of my work spills into this forum: I'm more and more growing towards business analist / business modeller, I start to see processes and structures everywhere

DeepO

[Solomwi]

Excellently put, and not to worry. I think applying the principles each of us is trained to use away from the game is probably a good thing.

[Arrian]

With city specialization, we are likely to have one or more "barracks cities" that produce little more than troops (only producing other things when needed or if they help directly in troop production - happy/health when needed, forge/factory/etc when available, Heroic Epic, etc when available). That/those city(ies) can almost be handed over to the Spartan Academy.

So, with a minimum of fuss, the SA can order up the troops they think we need. I hope. I know I've built such cities several times in SP play.

-Arrian

[DeepO]

specialization will be in function of our civics, though, so in case we have a SPI leader a lot of that control is given back to Smith's. Even barracks cities need other buildings, and there will always be a time for growth, and one for production ... not something the Spartan's should worry about. Let them generate a plan on where to put the defenders/sentries, and give Smith's the responsibility to fulfill that plan within the given timeframe.

DeepO

[Arrian]

True. The city will require a barracks, granary/aqueduct, temple, forge, HE. Other than that, though, it's on units (IMO).

The Spartan Academy should come up with plans for:

a) procurement - what troops we want, with which promotion(s), with what priority;

b) placement - where to put the troops we have

c) strategic planning - if we want to do X (invade someone... choke/pillage... etc.) exactly how do we go about it and how would that impact a & b?

-Arrian

[Hot Mustard]

Depending on terrain, we will also want a city semi-dedicated to ship production. One that will be amply prepared to make full use of Drydock, once we get there.

[Solomwi]

Depending on the map, we'll probably want two shipbuilders. I've rarely found one to be sufficient.

[Hot Mustard]

Yes, this is highly map-dependant. I usually have one such city per coast minimum, and more if it turns out to be an island-heavy map, or I have close neighbours across a channel, etc.

[Arrian]

Ships... yeah, we will need some semblance of a navy earlier than I'm used to having one (I typically skimp pre-caravels). I think 1 city will be sufficient for some time, though. How many cities do you think we'll have?

In the early going, we probably want enough navy to protect our seafood resources (if any). Ideally we would want enough to block any incursion attempts such that they have to attack our ships (and face the 10% coastal tile defense bonus) to get through, but that could require quite a few galleys - hammers best spent elsewhere. We'll see.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Arrian
The Spartan Academy should come up with plans for:

a) procurement - what troops we want, with which promotion(s), with what priority;

b) placement - where to put the troops we have

c) strategic planning - if we want to do X (invade someone... choke/pillage... etc.) exactly how do we go about it and how would that impact a & b?

Add to that:

b-2) sentry nets (that's not just troops; e.g., spreading religion)

d) worst case scenarios

e) emergency response

On a related note to d) and e), I don;t know much about rapid build-up of military strength... I've seen mention of either low military strength or actual disbandment/gifting, followed by massive production of newly enabled units through poprush, gold purchase, draft, etc. A discussion of the means whereby to do this would be good.

[Hot Mustard]

Don't dismiss exploratory ships early. Diplomacy means much more in Demo games, so getting contact and having a earlier chance to make impressions is very valuable. I'm not talking flotillas of course.

[Solomwi]

Arrian, I'm thinking more in terms of once drydocks become available. Setting two shipbuilding cities up gives us flexibility, in that we can produce a line of ships in one or the other, to let the other keep building a needed improvement, or turn both to ships in case of emergency.

[Arrian]

Fishing boats might be a cheap early exploration method. They'll die if they bump into a barb galley, but those don't show up for a while.

Theseus,

Agree - sentries, including religion (if we're able - I suspect other teams will not want our missionaries in their lands), will be important.

Emergency response... a reserve of cash for emergency upgrades, chopping (I'm thinking forests that are left with 1 turn left needed for chopping, roaded... so that we can insta-chop them in dire emergency, whilst keeping them around for as long as we can for health benifits) and poprushing. Especially if we chose a SPI civ, once nationhood is available, that becomes a key part of emergency response planning.

Has anyone really messed around with prebuilding units, switching to something else, and coming back? I know that Firaxis added decay of builds put aside in order to counter the possible exploit of pre-building a massive army that could appear as if by magic in 1 turn (w/o costing you any upkeep until then). But I don't know how the decay works, exactly.

-Arrian