Gathering Storm

[Mudhut]

Heya,

I was thinking I would like to join you guys in the demogame.

Not that I am going to be able to contribute that much (no internet at home) but I habitually spend an hour or so each weekday morning on the web.

Or has the horse already bolted?

[notyoueither]

What attracted you to us, Mudhut?

[Mudhut]

Well, I looked at the various memberlists, and saw that GS had nye, Aeson, Dominae, Vel, DeepO.... I mean pretty much every major person who I have listened to over the years and who I really respect for their mastery of the game. [I may not post much, but I lurk a fair bit.] That attracted me - I wanted to be on the same team as these living legends!

But then I stopped and thought - why do I want to be a part of this? And the most fundamental answer was: I want to improve my Civ ability. [I'm on Monarch right now, winning about 50%, but that's a long way from where I want to finish up.]

And two approaches came to mind:
Option A: Join the smallest team, because there I would have the greatest percentage chance of making a difference. I could be more involved in the decision making, and whatever mistakes we would make [and if they listened to me at all, I'm sure we would make plenty!] would be what I would learn from.

Option B: Join the team with the best players. To learn, you need to be with the masters, to see what they see and hear what they think. Sure, the best players aren't going to listen to me that much, and therefore we won't be making that many mistakes to learn from. But I will be privy to the reasoning of the best in the game, and that has to teach me a lot.

In the end, it comes down to time. I won't have the hours and hours needed to satisfactorily complete Option A - it would take a lot of time. And frankly, I'm pretty good at lurking... so I thought I'd ask and hopefully be allowed to join GS, which IMHO has the best players.

Whaddaya reckon?

[Master Zen]

One of "the masters" doesn't even play Civ4.





... that happens to be me btw.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Mudhut
Whaddaya reckon?

I reckon that some of the other teams have some very good players, however I am still flattered by your choice and reasoning. Although, I would encourage you not to lurk. Learning comes from the discussion.

Approval of new members takes a little time (a couple of days). If you can hang on a bit we will see what can be done.

[Kataphraktoi]

Hey mudhut, If you really want some great tips, corner a player like vel and sit him down with a few drinks to loosen his tounge always does the trick for me

[Mudhut]

Seems to me that Vel graciously offers his advice to all, despite the fact that we are on the other side of the globe and so unable to buy him a drink.

Although wherever you are in the world, I would advocate having a large caffeinated beverage on hand before starting one of the Vels Strategy Threads... they go on for a while...

[notyoueither]

I don't want to burst your bubble, but I feel I should point out that Aeson is an admin, so he is a member of all the teams, and none of them.

Vel has joined, but he has had personal problems and can be forgiven for not yet posting.

Dominae is also away on RL issues.

DeepO is a Belgian, and will talk your ear off. Not that Belgians are particularlly bad, outside of that one incident...

[Mudhut]

Hmmmm.

Aeson - I see. I thought Snoopy was running things? - I noticed he was in all the teams. Is it just the two of them?

Vel, Dom - RL. Sigh. If only it didn't intrude into the truly important things like Civ. Still, demogame will run for a while and I am sure they will be back to help out down the track.

And GS still has the tiger, after all. I stand by my statement: IMHO GS have the best players.

Another apoltoner I really think is a master is Unorthodox. If he was in GS, then it would be perfect. I did think about the Merc team, but (and I know this will attract flames) selling your army to whoever has the most $$ is just, well, a bit dishonourable. Not that other teams' actions will necessary be honourable all the time either, but I think starting out with that particular role-playing attitude is a bit unappealing.

-Mudhut.

[notyoueither]

Oh wait. Let me turn over so you can butter up the other side.

I'm not sure what I did to deserve such plaudits, but I'm purring.

Snoopy is the public face of the admin 'team'. Aeson is the quiet half.

On the topic of mercs, it is best not to prejudge too much. These games are long, hard slogs. Many teams will find themselves doing things they never thought possible when they started out. Maybe the mercs will play to win. You never know.

[Mudhut]

But isn't "prejudging" exactly what the Mercs have done? Before they have seen the map, their neighbours or anything, they have said: "we will act in this particular way, for money". Nothing wrong with selling your troops in the right circumstances, but it has to be the right circumstances, and not *any* circumstances.

If I may draw a relatively long bow, I think it's a bit like TV reality show Survivor. Occasionally you get someone who comes out and says "I will sell my vote to whichever faction offers the best deal." They never end up winning - because though they may be useful for a particular situation, nobody trusts them, because they are inherently dishonourable, . Every time, within a round or two, they will be voted off.

Obviously, I have no idea what it is really like in a demogame. But one idea in my head (and please hear me say that I am an absolute newbie with demogames, and so readily accept that I could be completely wrong) is that the biggest factor in success will be whether or not two (or three or four) factions gang up against any one team. And a dishonourable team, who nobody trusts, will not be on the winning side of these mulitple-teams-versus-one equations in the long term.

[....Mudhut thinks maybe he should go back to lurking, before he starts getting flamed....]

[notyoueither]

Good points, but the mercs will claim they they are acting honourably. They will make deals and most likely try to keep them. It isn't clear that they do not intend to leverage their gold towards winning the game, all that is clear is that they feel that gold should be able to buy their fleeting loyalty.

Honour is a funny thing when subjected to the midnight sun of projects such as these, and you are right that it is wise not to adopt too rigid a position at so early a stage.

[alva]

I thought none of the GS members were ever to even think about the 'H' word, let alone mention it.

[Metaliturtle]

::Metaliturtle gets excited that someone new considers him to be a 'good' player::

Umm, Honor is determined by those who write the history books, and the people who do that always win... BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY

but yeah, I'm sure we gonna pal up with the merc team sooner or later.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Mudhut
Another apoltoner I really think is a master is Unorthodox.

If he was in GS, then it would be perfect. I did think about the Merc team, but (and I know this will attract flames) selling your army to whoever has the most $$ is just, well, a bit dishonourable. Not that other teams' actions will necessary be honourable all the time either, but I think starting out with that particular role-playing attitude is a bit unappealing.

-Mudhut.

To each their own. Glad you found a team.

And one minor correction. We said we're for sale. Didn't say it neccessarily had to be to the one with the most money...