Banana Embassy

[binTravkin]

Will do, once I have a chance, but it only speaks in favour of not trading archery anyway..

[Chaos Theory]

I don't see what the big deal is with the nanas getting archery. They have plenty of time to research it anyway, given our timetable for war with them. I'd rather see them cooped up in cities with archers than marginally able to counterattack with swordsmen.

[binTravkin]

Impaler of Alpha Centuri,
We respect your straight forward tone. No offense is taken and you do not need to ask forgiveness for being direct and honest.

Team Banana is interested in tech trades with your nation. We will discuss this latest offer.

We sent the map because you recently sent the map with the iron resources and we wish to keep an open relationship with your people.

Road building is a priority of ours. Thank you for the suggestion.

A chat is in order but a quick check of your REAL WORLD calander will remind you that is the weekend before Christmas. I will see what I can do.

I have not seen or heard from GS. We have no GS maps to share.

I will contact you soon with a response to the tech trades.

Peace my friends,
-The Diplomatic Banana

Their hippy tone checked.
The GS part seems strange with GS saying that communications have become more often..

[N35t0r]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
I don't see what the big deal is with the nanas getting archery. They have plenty of time to research it anyway, given our timetable for war with them. I'd rather see them cooped up in cities with archers than marginally able to counterattack with swordsmen.

An archer is mor eo less better than a sword versus chukos and axes

[binTravkin]

Yes, they have plenty of time, but if we avoid trading it until the moment our chukos are roaming towards them, they'll still be some 3 turns without it, which means less hard targets..

[Impaler[WrG]]

Well we have the perfect way out of this, GS will supply us with archery and we will "regretably" have to agree to their no re-trade policy thus we cant trade it to Banana. We will try to see if they are ok with (Writing + IW for Meditation, Priesthood, Fishing, Sailing) which is still roughly equal. If we have too we can drop Priesthood its such a little tech anyway . And especialy if the oracle is built we shouldnt even bother.

[binTravkin]

And especialy if the oracle is built we shouldnt even bother.

Actually the political situation on our and the other continent is such that I wouldn't be too surprised if Oracle gets delayed by some 15-20 turns from its usual time in games with similar setup - another reason to urge GS to research masonry sooner..

[binTravkin]

The tech exchange draft with Bananas:

1. (right after Alphabet is done)
Fishing
Meditation
for
Writing


2. (right the next turn, when techs one level up can be traded)
Sailing
Priesthood
for
Iron Working



AC:
Iron Working: 286
Writing: 171
Total: 457


Bananas:
Fishing: 57
Sailing: 143
Meditation: 114
Priesthood: 85
Total: 399

Which is actually pretty generous..

EDIT: Here should apply the same rules, that neither sie trades the techs it recieved, as of not having 'copyright'.

[PJayTycy]

I approve of this techtrade proposal , let's hope GS and Banana approve too.

(maybe we should create a tech-trade thread to discuss all matters related to this 3-way deal. Now it's scattered across banana diplomacy, storm diplomacy, strategic planning and grand summit threads)

[PJayTycy]

Hail friends,

We are very pleased that there is so much interest in the equitable exchange of techs and the building of our nations friendship. NYE of Gathering Storm sent us tenative terms for an ongoing trade deal among our three nations: Alpha Centuri, Gathering Storm, & Team Banana. These are as follows:

1. technology would be exchanged among the three teams on an even exchange basis
2. each of the three civs agrees not to retrade any technology acquired in trade from one of the three
3. trades arranged are kept even if a tech to be traded for is acquired by other means
4. each of the three teams agrees to an embargo on the team known as XXXXXXXX. Technology will never be traded with XXXXXXXX and borders with them will remain closed forever.

I blocked out XXXXXXXX because I am not sure if AC knows of who we speak.

Team Banana has the following minor suggested changes:
1. Technology trades will be based on beakers with equality being the goal.
2. each of the three civs agrees not to retrade any technology to a non-member party acquired in trade from one of the three; without prior agreement of all three member nations.
3. trades arranged are kept even if a tech to be traded for is acquired by other means
4. each of the three teams agrees to an embargo on the team known as XXXXXXXX. Technology will never be traded with XXXXXXXX and borders with them will remain closed forever.
5. tech trade arragements among member nations will be common knowledge to member nations - ie. when a trade deal is finalized all 3 members will be notified even if only 2 parties are involved in the trade.

We three neighbors are forming the basis for a long term bond. We should not use the fruits of this friendship to strengthen other nations or for short term gains of of own.

[bAlpha Centuri recently offered Team Banana an exchange of (Iron Working and Writing for Meditation, Fishing and Sailing) to be followed the next turn with (Priesthood for Archery).[/b]

Knowing that we can come to some terms for the Tech Trade Treaty. Our friends the Alpha Centurians can consider this a deal.

Gathering Storm, I am sure that as soon as we come to terms, we can stike a deal to get you Animal Husbandry. The Wise men of The Great Banana (whose name dare not be uttered) are looking into options now.

Our three nations are so close to terms for the foundation of this Tech Trade Treaty that it is safe to say that we just need to dot the "i's" and cross the "t's".

These are great days!
The Diplomatic Banana

We are we going to have to tell them we cant trade archery to them (because we got it from GS). The trade is even still generous from our part without archery Also, we can't trade fishing and sailing in the same turn according to bt.

[PJayTycy]

posted here, as it is a response from GS to the previous Banana msg:

Quick reply to TDB's detailed response.

The Alpha Centaurians are aware of Vox and are allowed to discuss them according to the interpretation of the rules given to me by Snoopy. 'XXXXXXXX' may be replaced by 'Vox'.

Banana's 2nd point is interesting:
'2. each of the three civs agrees not to retrade any technology to a non-member party acquired in trade from one of the three; without prior agreement of all three member nations.'

but is also covered by the initially proposed 2nd point:
'2. each of the three civs agrees not to retrade any technology acquired in trade from one of the three'

Of course permission by the researching (and 3rd) civ could be given for a trade to an outside party. Is there another situation that needs to be covered?

Cheers
nye

So, it seems bananas wanted to reformulate the no-retrade clause, so we were allowed to trade things we got from one party to the other party. I prefer GS's way of thinking : the original researcher is the one only who's got the right to trade some tech.

Ofcourse, it might give a bad image if we now support the GS proposal and then use it as an excuse as why we don't trade them archery.

However, I say we don't need no excuses. If the bananas are not happy, they'll be splattered. Well, they'll be splattered anyway.

[binTravkin]

I prefer GS's way of thinking : the original researcher is the one only who's got the right to trade some tech.

Which was my proposal too.

However, I say we don't need no excuses. If the bananas are not happy, they'll be splattered. Well, they'll be splattered anyway.

[PJayTycy]

Impaler, as our top-diplomat, do you have an idea of how to talk them out of receiving archery and accepting the no-retrade clause?

[Impaler[WrG]]

If we do succed in not giving them archery its almost ashured that they will set up an Archery 4 AH deal with Storm. Whial we would like to avoid that so Bananas stay weak, I dont think theirs any real way to do that without planting strong suspition in the Bananas as to our ultimate intentions. We will simply have to plow through their archer defences which will hopefully be thin due to our deceptivly cuddly demeaner. Given that an aquisition of archery by Bananas is inevitable we should throw our support behind it and encourage them to get it in trade from Storm after we trade them Alphabet. This will atleat assure that their is a long delay in their aquisition of the tech and their is a possibility of Banana or Storm screwing this trade up on their own or atleast delaying it (likly due to poor comunications by Nanas).

I think our position should be that because Archery is a Storm tech we feel we need to aquiess to their terms when it comes to their techs. The original tenitive proposal to Nanas was one inwhich we were speculating that Strom would not be traded alphabet and their would have been a Banana tech going to them in that same turn for balance. Given that it now seems they will aquire it under the current proposal this no longer seems nessary and Bananas can obtain the tech directly from Storm on terms suitable to both parties.

Given that AC formerly changes its proposal two a two step trade of pre-requisite requirments (Fishing and Meditiation 4 Writing) followed the next turn by (Sailing, Priesthood 4 IronWorking). This is slightly less generous but still in Bananas favor in beakers. Were hopefull this is acceptable and that the loss of archery from the deal dose not sour it. Keep in mind our original proposal was explicity described as tenitive. This proposal on the other hand can be considered firm and if acceptable a Binding agreement can be signed by both sides to set it in stone.

Dose something along thouse line sound good?

P.S. Is Banana willing to trade its map for a partial map of Storm territory covering the area imediatly south of Bananas southern city (AC has been given this map when we were told about Vox). Storm has said they would accept such a deal and AC would then act as intermediary, forwarding both maps.

[binTravkin]

If we do succed in not giving them archery its almost ashured that they will set up an Archery 4 AH deal with Storm. Whial we would like to avoid that so Bananas stay weak, I dont think theirs any real way to do that without planting strong suspition in the Bananas as to our ultimate intentions. We will simply have to plow through their archer defences which will hopefully be thin due to our deceptivly cuddly demeaner. Given that an aquisition of archery by Bananas is inevitable we should throw our support behind it and encourage them to get it in trade from Storm after we trade them Alphabet. This will atleat assure that their is a long delay in their aquisition of the tech and their is a possibility of Banana or Storm screwing this trade up on their own or atleast delaying it (likly due to poor comunications by Nanas).

Agree, we should simply put up this proposal that each team may only retrade what it has researched itself, not traded from any other.
By that rule we can't trade Archery to Bananas anyhow and they can acquire some techs from GS when GS gets Alphabet.

I think our position should be that because Archery is a Storm tech we feel we need to aquiess to their terms when it comes to their techs. The original tenitive proposal to Nanas was one inwhich we were speculating that Strom would not be traded alphabet and their would have been a Banana tech going to them in that same turn for balance. Given that it now seems they will aquire it under the current proposal this no longer seems nessary and Bananas can obtain the tech directly from Storm on terms suitable to both parties.

Well, we and everyone else should only trade 1vs1 and make that understood to everyone.
If we engage in deals like 'transfering' a tech through us to bananas and the like, we can get in diplomatic trouble.

Given that AC formerly changes its proposal two a two step trade of pre-requisite requirments (Fishing and Meditiation 4 Writing) followed the next turn by (Sailing, Priesthood 4 IronWorking). This is slightly less generous but still in Bananas favor in beakers. Were hopefull this is acceptable and that the loss of archery from the deal dose not sour it. Keep in mind our original proposal was explicity described as tenitive. This proposal on the other hand can be considered firm and if acceptable a Binding agreement can be signed by both sides to set it in stone.

We should not say 'slightly less generous' but 'we believe it's more fair'.
We do not owe them anything and the extra beakers given should be considered a gift similarly to them gifting us their map.

P.S. Is Banana willing to trade its map for a partial map of Storm territory covering the area imediatly south of Bananas southern city (AC has been given this map when we were told about Vox). Storm has said they would accept such a deal and AC would then act as intermediary, forwarding both maps.

We have the Banana map - they sent it to us as a gift