The Academy

[Maniac]

I thought we could use this thread to ask some general gameplay related strategy questions.

In SMAC there's more or less an accepted rule of thumb that one mineral is worth two credits. Is there already a consensus in Civ4 regarding the value of food, hammers and gold? I've only played like two Civ4 games halfway, until I get bored because I have nothing useful left to build... So I'm no expert at all, but from first sight I'd say in Civ4 one hammer is also worth two gold. For example regarding the specialists a priest gives one hammer and one gold, while merchants and scientists give three gold/science. So priests seem balanced compared to the other specialists assuming one hammer is worth two gold. An engineer provides two hammers, which would translate into four gold, but as expected, people seem to prefer engineers far more than the other specialists.

On the other side, IIRC when someone else beats you to producing a wonder, you only get an amount of gold equal to the numbers of hammers you had spent. My reaction then is "OMG DISASTER half my production wasted!" I've read other people write though that they consider this a good deal. Also in The Ancient Mediterranean Mod there's a merchant vessel which seems to give 48 gold everytime when conducting a trade mission. The cost of the ship is 75 hammers (but with double production when you have the timber resource, so basically 37.5 hammers). That's still less than two gold per hammer, so seems like a bad deal to me. Still other people seem to think it worthwhile.

So in short, are those other people just n00bs who don't know how to play a civ type game decently or am I underestimating the value of gold?

[ForesterSOF]

I feel that it can be answered either way for one must consider the end goal and the direct and indirect consequences of their decision.

[Maniac]

Of course. But isn't there some average, a rule of thumb of their value, keeping of course in mind it varies somewhat depending on the strategy you follow?

[PJayTycy]

For rushing purposes, the base equation is 1 hammer = 3 gold. If you have Kremlin, the base equation is 1 hammer = 2 gold. World wonders and national wonders require more gold (respectively *2 and *1.5)

[Maniac]

Ah thanks.
So do people actually rush a lot with gold?

[Senethro]

No, because gold rush only becomes available with Universal Suffrage.

I think they dropped the ball there, although they have given the pop-rush option.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Senethro
I think they dropped the ball there,

As with so many things...

although they have given the pop-rush option.

Which we should be able to use well, with our flood plain starting location.


Btw, a quick second question in the meanwhile. What's the limit of hammers a great engineer can contribute to hurry something? And the limit of labs (whatever it's called) any great person can contribute to researching a technology?

[Chaos Theory]

If you have excess production and a shortage of commerce, an exchange ratio of worse than 1 hammer to 2 commerce can be worthwhile, since building Wealth only gives .5 commerce per hammer. Also, many wonders can be sped up with the appropriate resource, and of course Industrious contributes. Consider that fairly early, a wonder can benefit from a Forge, a strategic resource, and our Industrious trait, to turn each raw hammer into 2.75. If we fail to build the wonder, we then get 2.75 gold per raw hammer, or 2.75/1.25 = 2.2 gold per hammer that could be applied to other builds with the Forge.

The hammers/beakers from GPs increases with time, but I haven't worked out a formula.

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Maniac
Btw, a quick second question in the meanwhile. What's the limit of hammers a great engineer can contribute to hurry something?

Can't remember Something like 1500 hammers in Marathon maybe?

And the limit of labs (whatever it's called) any great person can contribute to researching a technology?

With Marathon, I've seen as much as 7500. But I've also seen as low as 5000. I don't know if this has to do with the 1.61 patch or if they simply give more beakers later in the game.

wrt hammers for gold, gold can be worth a lot in situations where your economy is hurting, for examply after a big conquest. Your cities are costing you through the roof - forcing you to drop science to a very low level. You will fall behind in tech, which is dangerous.

At this stage, you will have a much easier time finding spare hammers than commerce. Even an exchange of 2 hammers for 1 beaker is pretty good - and the 1:1 ratio you get for the failed wonder can really be a blessing. All that gold is probably quickly converted to science by upping the science level and eating up that new cash reserve.

The money from a failed wonder can give you enough cash to research an entire tech. And if that tech is currency, you may find yourself well on your way out of your economic depression.

So basically the ratio varies from 1:2 to 3:1 This is a dynamic game Maniac

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Also, many wonders can be sped up with the appropriate resource, and of course Industrious contributes. Consider that fairly early, a wonder can benefit from a Forge, a strategic resource, and our Industrious trait, to turn each raw hammer into 2.75. If we fail to build the wonder, we then get 2.75 gold per raw hammer, or 2.75/1.25 = 2.2 gold per hammer that could be applied to other builds with the Forge.

Great points!
We would never get a basic 1:1 ratio.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
Can't remember Something like 1500 hammers in Marathon maybe?

With Marathon, I've seen as much as 7500. But I've also seen as low as 5000. I don't know if this has to do with the 1.61 patch or if they simply give more beakers later in the game.

Wow - pretty good.

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
Great points!

QFT!

[SebP]

regarding GP beakers...
on normal speed, scientists initially give 1500 beakers, all other GP give 1000 beakers. the number of beakers DOES increase over time, but not by much. i read a while ago it has to do with population points in your realm. +1 or +2 beakers per population point or something.

an interesting point that not everyone may be familiar with: the tech that a GP gives is totally deterministic and can be looked up in the following table: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140952

it works exactly as the OP in that thread initially says: the available tech with the highest value (in the table, NOT the beaker price) for the kind of GP you have is what you get, and in a tie, the most expensive tech

it's very useful for speedy beelines to certain middle age techs (most notably civil service, philosophy or machinery)