Turn 104, 300BC

[Hot Mustard]

Turn 104, 300BC

Units

Warriors
Thug: 2/2, 0/2 Exp. Fort (EotS)

Skirmishers
Cantona: 4/4 0/2 Exp. Fort
Schumacher: 4/4 0/2 Exp. Fort
Toronto FC: R.I.P.
Nash: Fort (Taz)
Neville: Move 3-6 (into Wines)
Liverpool: 1.6/4.0 2/2 Exp. Fort - Promotion - City?

Axemen

Stack I - Fort
Brashear:
Domi:
Stevens:
Redick:

Laraque: Fort
McTavish: Fort
Pronger: Fort

Catapults
Pfeiffer: Bombard
Halle: Bombard
Newmar: Bombard
Cat IV: Fort (Wines)
Cat V: Move 9

Took The Voice down to +??%

Spearmen
Spear I: Fort
Spear II: (Wines) R.I.P.
Spear II: Fort (Taz)

Scouts
Clarke: Move ?-?

Workers
Worker I: Move 7 (Wines) or Move 3-3 and Road? (If they give chase the Worker can move to the forest for protection with our Axes)
Worker II: Cottage (3 turns)
Worker III: Camp (2 turns)

Science

Current (44/turn +?): Code of Laws (275/500) (5 turns)


Cities

Eye of the Storm (Size 5)
WF: 1, 44, 74, 7, 78 (same)
Growth (2/turn): 22/30 (4 turns)
Production (9/turn): Catapult done, start ???

Winestrom (Size 5) (poprush - 28 turns)
WF: 3, 2, 1, 4, 7 (growth)
Growth (5/turn): 15/30 (3 turns)
Production (3/turn): Spearman done and dead, start ???
In Queue: Obelisk (4/30), Library (3/90)

Taz City (Size 3) (poprush - 33 turns)
WF: 3, 2, 14 (growth)
Growth (5/turn): 04/28 (5 turns)
Production (1/turn): Spearman done, start ???


In-game Diplomacy
Trade offered by AC: Sailing and Literature for Monarchy - Accept

[Hot Mustard]

While we can't rely on Vox to make sub-optimal decisions, it's certainly nice that they continue to do so...

The Voice's Horse Archer has defeated Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher)!
Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher) is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (30/100HP)
Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher) is hit for 19 (13/100HP)
Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher) is hit for 19 (32/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (50/100HP)
Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher) is hit for 19 (51/100HP)
(City Defense: +50%)
(Fortify: +25%)
(Extra Combat: -10%)
Combat Odds: 46.7%
The Voice's Horse Archer (4.62) vs Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher) (4.90)

Stormbringer's Liverpool (Skirmisher) has defeated The Voice's Horse Archer!
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Stormbringer's Liverpool (Skirmisher) is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Stormbringer's Liverpool (Skirmisher) is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Stormbringer's Liverpool (Skirmisher) is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
(City Defense: +50%)
Combat Odds: 50.0%
The Voice's Horse Archer (6.00) vs Stormbringer's Liverpool (Skirmisher) (6.00)

The Voice's Horse Archer has defeated Stormbringer's Spearman!
Stormbringer's Spearman is hit for 17 (0/100HP)
Stormbringer's Spearman is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Stormbringer's Spearman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Stormbringer's Spearman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Stormbringer's Spearman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Stormbringer's Spearman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
The Voice's Horse Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
(Combat: +100%)
Combat Odds: 21.7%
The Voice's Horse Archer (6.00) vs Stormbringer's Spearman (8.00)

Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher) has defeated The Voice's Chariot!
The Voice's Chariot is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
The Voice's Chariot is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
The Voice's Chariot is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
The Voice's Chariot is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
(City Defense: +50%)
(Fortify: +25%)
Combat Odds: 1.6%
The Voice's Chariot (4.00) vs Stormbringer's Toronto FC (Skirmisher) (7.00)

So the upshot is that we killed a Chariot and a Horse Archer while losing a Spear and a Skirmisher. There remains two Horse Archers, one at 4.9/6.0 and the other only 0.5/6.0.

I assume we move Neville 3-6 into Wines.

[Hot Mustard]

Godel - would you like to play this turn?

[Blake]

Bumrushing Wines was a semi-optimal move, nothing they do is going to win them the game, but they DID get lucky in taking out two units and they could have got really lucky and caused us a lot of harm. I'd say bumrushing Wines was the best move, with the alternative of moving then hitting a random city being equally good. Pillaging or something would've been the dumb move.

So am I correct in saying we have a catapult and a wounded Skirmisher in Wines now?

I think we can afford to suicide the catapult with the hope of taking out the horse archer (at least if the odds are over 50%), it if it wins, or even it doesn't, we should be able to use Liverpool to wipe out a Horse. It's remotely possibly it'll just lose and not deal enough damage to let Liverpool kill anything, but that's a risk I think we can afford.

[Hot Mustard]

Originally posted by Blake
Bumrushing Wines was a semi-optimal move, nothing they do is going to win them the game, but they DID get lucky in taking out two units and they could have got really lucky and caused us a lot of harm. I'd say bumrushing Wines was the best move, with the alternative of moving then hitting a random city being equally good. Pillaging or something would've been the dumb move.

So am I correct in saying we have a catapult and a wounded Skirmisher in Wines now?

I think we can afford to suicide the catapult with the hope of taking out the horse archer (at least if the odds are over 50%), it if it wins, or even it doesn't, we should be able to use Liverpool to wipe out a Horse. It's remotely possibly it'll just lose and not deal enough damage to let Liverpool kill anything, but that's a risk I think we can afford.

Yes, a 1.6/4.0 Skirmisher and a Cat.

You think a 1.6/4.0 Skirmisher can take a 4.9/6.0 Horse Archer? Even if the Cat takes off 20%, that's still a 3.9/6.0 Horse Archer.

[Godel]

I moused over the odds. Cat vs HA is 23.7%. Even though the 1.4/4.0 Skirmisher has a promotion now, I'm not sure that counterattacking is the best move.

[Godel]

There are now 12 archers in The Voice (1 x CG2, 6 x CG1). They have now pop-rushed themselves to 1 pop and are working a plains forest tile.

We have 7 axes (1 x CR1), 1 Spear, 1 Skirm, 4 Cats in the vicinity. (Will take 2 turns to position them).

How many units do we want? It will affect build orders for our cities.

[Godel]

Originally posted by Hot Mustard
Godel - would you like to play this turn?

That's fine. I will have to play in about 6-7 hours (that makes it about 14 hour turn around for the save).

[Hot Mustard]

Don't rush it out - we have build orders to determine, etc. Each turn is 24 hours, with 24 hour extension if needed.

[Godel]

OK, I will do it in the morning (AEST) or ask for an extension if there is still not enough feedback. Who do I notify for an extension if required? Snoopy and those expecting the save? Plus the save tracker?

[Godel]

My suggestions:
Move spear in Taz towards the hub
Promote Liverpool to CG1

Since the only threat now is the CombatIII HA, we only need at most one more spear. So I'd probably go spear, cat, cat for build orders. Once those two cats are built (whipped?) and moved to The Voice (along with the other two cats in our terrirtory), that will probably be enough units to safely capture the city. With only 1 pop, The Voice cannot build too many more defenders in that time.

As for what to do with the threatened worker... I'd probably leave him somewhere safe inside our borders. There are still plenty of cottages, farms and roads that can be built.

[Hot Mustard]

Just post in the turn discussion thread that we're going over if we need to.

There's also lots of land around the Voice that needs improvement...

Let's not forget their coastal city, which built the Horse Archers - it's not likely size 1, and still producing units.

[Godel]

OK, after a little more thought I'm with HM about the worker roading in Vox territory.

RE Vox's Coastal city: How quickly can they build HAs? Moscow has cows (prob pastured), 1 grass forest, plains tiles and grassland tiles. Assume no granary. Whip-growth cycle on average is probably: 2 pop - work cows and grassland forest (6 turns, 4hpt), 3 pop - work grassland (6.5 turns, 4hpt), 4 pop - whip (60 hammers) and repeat. That makes roughly 110 hammers every 12 or 13 turns.

With a granary this will be much better. Anyway, another two spears will be useful.

[Godel]

C'mon folks! We are going to wipe Vox off the face of the earth but we need to do it in an efficient way. We've only had a few suggestions from Blake, HM and a novice like me. We particularly need comments on build orders.

We'll take the extension and I'll play the turn about 15 hours from now.

[Blake]

Okay.

6 Catapults is enough to give us landslide victory at Vox. Fewer might be cutting things too finely but 6 is enough to firmly trash 12-13 archers, regardless of how the main battles go, a trashed archer is an easy kill, but still gives our axes 2-3 exp, meaning they get a CR promotion the next turn.
More pults than that is probably sub-optimal, each pult is half a settler.

What is wines production status? How much overflow does it have?

We definitely want to only 2-pop whip Wines, if we can change to a catapult and still have less than 30h invested into it next turn, we should do so, then 2-pop the pult and get a skirm or spear with the carryover. Skirms are in many ways better than spears since they're cheaper and are almost as good on defense.