Poll: Tech Trading

[Keygen]

Though personally still not convinced, Pinchak or anyone sharing the same opinion with him, might have a point so please be more specific what exact restrictions you're referring to.

[Keygen]

Don't forget all that this game will give one winner, so in some extent tech exchange or any other agreement between teams will become sooner or later self-restricted. Of course there still might be room for exceptions but that is what life is all about

[emperor]

I can't say that that's ever happened in any of the games I've been in. Sure, alliances tend to form around tech trading partners, but that rarely means that everybody has every tech. Different teams will have different priorities, and rarely will anyone trade away a tech they have a monopoly on, even to allies. Also, the choices of picking the religion path, the cultural path, the military path etc are still very much alive with tech trading on.

[proviisori]

Originally posted by Keygen
Don't forget all that this game will give one winner, so in some extent tech exchange or any other agreement between teams will become sooner or later self-restricted. Of course there still might be room for exceptions but that is what life is all about

Well... if we have permanent alliances on, we could have more than one winner.

[emperor]

Originally posted by proviisori


Well... if we have permanent alliances on, we could have more than one winner.

Two, to be exact. (Captain Obvious at your service.)

[Keygen]

Originally posted by proviisori

Well... if we have permanent alliances on, we could have more than one winner.

If our intention is to make this a team game (meaning teams team with other teams) well, then I guess you're right

But I don't think permanent alliances will be on either.

[Pinchak]

Pinchak or anyone sharing the same opinion with him, might have a point so please be more specific what exact restrictions you're referring to.

My suggestion would be to implement TOSRTT (Trade Only Self Researched Techs Twice). This requires teams to write down what techs they actually researched or discovered otherwise (not techs they got through trade). You can only trade techs you discovered on your own, and for each of those you can only trade it two times.

A variation of this has been implemented for the HOTW games and it seems to work rather well.

Someone else here had a suggestion that we ban teams from revieling what techs they are researching (to avoid the lets all fill in each others gaps effect i am assuming). I like this idea too, but I really don't see any way to police it.

Not that I would want actual "policing" of TOSRTT, but with this rule at least it is possible to get caught "cheating".


Let me just say on the side that I will be happy with whatever we agree on. Most people want no restrictions, so I am fine with that. I only argue this point because personally, I think it would make for a better game. I of course may be wrong. (Admittedly, this will be my first diplogame, but I imagine the basic game concepts don't vary too much from other formats).

[proviisori]

Originally posted by Pinchak


My suggestion would be to implement TOSRTT (Trade Only Self Researched Techs Twice).

(Admittedly, this will be my first diplogame, but I imagine the basic game concepts don't vary too much from other formats).

I could live with TOSRTT.


Minor correction... this is democracy game.
Diplogames are quite different.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

I still disagree, cant see why any team should be restricted by rules on this.

Although only being able to trade researched techs may be a workable rule. Trouble is you either allow trades or you dont, there is no game setting to limit trading. I certainly dont want a game with no tech trading allowed.

I think the concerns while valid are not too likely, any team who whores around its tech is really only hurting itself in the long run, as there can be only one winner and gaining a tech lead is the way to achieve victory !

too many rules will only make the game feel stale imho.

[astrologix]

IMO, the real problem is that the alliances form too much soon in the game, and that allied countries are coordinated to research for each one one different technology.

That is really what makes the technological race accelerate and not the technologies trade himself. For that reason I proposed that one team prohibited himself to say to other team what technology is being investigated. It only depends on the honesty of the team to respect this rule. But I believe that here all we are honest, isn't it?

At the time where teams reach the Fascism/Comunism, the techs which allow to form permanent alliances, the tech coordination can be allowed without restriction.

IMO, this can better simulate the historical process of research. In the ancient times, each civ made her own research and it was difficult to coordinate with another civs. There are many exemples in the history to illustrate this fact.

OK, not flames, please, it's only a suggestion. You are autorized to throw it in the trash

[UnOrthOdOx]

If we are to restrict it at all, I like astrologix suggestion best.

Would be different.

[emperor]

Originally posted by astrologix
At the time where teams reach the Fascism/Comunism, the techs which allow to form permanent alliances, the tech coordination can be allowed without restriction.

I'd just like to point out that by the time Fascism/Communism comes around, I'm fairly sure that the game will either be over or pretty much decided, thus it'd be pointless to do this.

[astrologix]

I don't think so, emperor. I'm playing a pitboss game with 12/14 remaining players (with no tech restrictions at all), and the game is far to be decided. We currently have, aircraft, infanteries, destroyers, etc. We have 3 main alliances of 4 civs each and the fight is huge !

The thing is that tech trade was very fast paced in the earlier game because no restrictions at all. That's the reason why I think the restriction mentionned above will rock if applied, giving a much more interesting early game.

[emperor]

Well, perhaps you're right - I'm also in another game with 15/18 remaining civs in the modern era, and that game's still fairly close (although one player is pulling ahead by quite a margin).

It does depend on the number of civs that you start with, though. A game beginning with 10 civs is less likely to last to the industrial and modern ages than a game with 14 or 18 (or more) players.

But anyway, that's beside the point. The main thing I was trying to get across is that we shouldn't have ANY tech restrictions. They happen naturally through the course of the game anyway.

[Pinchak]

I like astrologix suggestion. The only flaw I see is that there really is no way to tell if people are adhereing to the rule.

Now with teams playing this, that might help. The whole team would have to be dishonest. In my experience people are generally honest in a game situation. So the likelyhood of a whole team (actually, two teams) willingly breaking the rule would be slim.

I give this idea a big thumbs up.