Operation NTSC

[Swiss Pauli]

My post wasn't so clear: I agree with the T-Hawk plan of keeping for now, then gifting back and forth during the same turn in order to maintain cover, but we end up with the city back. Handily for us, Banana moves first in their war with PAL.

[sunrise089]

Good discussion. Basically, I'm not worried about Civstats issues. As long as we brief Banana ahead of time the actual moves on this operation will take about 2 minutes. No way PAL can log in and counter during that time, even we they were allowed to by the turn order.

If we wan to go through with this we should probably set up a chat with Banana ASAP. FYI I am available tonight at the usual Banana Time.

[Sullla]

Seeing as how there's broad consensus for such a plan, do we want to send off the proposed message to Banana? I'm certainly open to edits or revisions on that message, but I didn't see any proposed. We're getting closer to the start of a new turn, and I'd like to see us send off something about this plan before the timer rolls over.

[shadyforce]

I would change the section that says 'you do the attack and we can loan you units if necessary' to something more ambiguous about the logistics and asking for a chat session to discuss.

But apart from that, the message is perfect.

How about something along the lines of:

From the tile east of Acre, galleons can reach The Warning in one turn along the arrowed path. (See our attached screenshot.) We would like to propose that you move your two galleons to that tile east of Acre and bring whatever units you can afford. We will help with any additional units to fill the boats, if necessary, and from there we carry out a surprise attack that razes The Warning to the ground. We should arrange a chat session soon to discuss logistics.

[T-hawk]

Good discussion. Basically, I'm not worried about Civstats issues. As long as we brief Banana ahead of time the actual moves on this operation will take about 2 minutes. No way PAL can log in and counter during that time, even we they were allowed to by the turn order.

But there's a one turn lag. The Acre flip-flop and loading the boats happens on turn N, then the units can attack on turn N+1.

The city exchange would be visible on Civstats, but only as a pair of score increases and decreases. Best we can hope is that PAL won't figure out exactly what's going on.

(My dastardly side wonders if Sunrise can conveniently accidentally take down the CivStats uploader for a day... )

[Zeviz]

If I am not mistaken, you can't move gifted units on the turn they were gifted, and gifting requires movement points. So Banana can't load Oromos onto Galleons the turn we gift them. (Unless Galeons are waiting in Acre, but that looks even more suspicious.)

I also don't like the idea of gifting the city back and forth, because that looks very suspicious on civstats. If we just gift Acre to Banana, we could simply be buying their friendship. (We can ask them to close borders with Imperio to make this look more plausible.) If civstats show that the city changes hands twice, it's obvious that something is going on.

[sunrise089]

In MP with teams gifted units can be moved right away. I'm not sure with different teams though.

[T-hawk]

A unit can load on a boat within a city even if it has no movement points left. So on T172, we can gift Acre and units within it to Banana, then he moves his boats into the city and loads them (even with 0 movement left), then move the boats 1E.

[Swiss Pauli]

If I am not mistaken, you can't move gifted units on the turn they were gifted, and gifting requires movement points. So Banana can't load Oromos onto Galleons the turn we gift them. (Unless Galeons are waiting in Acre, but that looks even more suspicious.)

I also don't like the idea of gifting the city back and forth, because that looks very suspicious on civstats. If we just gift Acre to Banana, we could simply be buying their friendship. (We can ask them to close borders with Imperio to make this look more plausible.) If civstats show that the city changes hands twice, it's obvious that something is going on.

This is wrong on both counts. Gifted units regain their movement points, and civstats doesn't show that a city's changed hands, merely point increases and decreases.

[timmy827]

Point increases/decreases reflect the pop change when a city gets transferred.

[mostly-harmless]

If we capture Acre and gift it to Banana it will show up like this (read bottom to top):

Team Banana Score increased to 984
RealmsBeyond Score decreased to 1386
Naldoimperio Score decreased to 1042
RealmsBeyond Score increased to 1394

mh

[ruff_hi]

If I am not mistaken, you can't move gifted units on the turn they were gifted, and gifting requires movement points.

This is not right in pbem games. You can move your unit 3 tiles, gift it to someone else (as long as the unit is in their territory) and they can move the unit 3 tiles on their turn. It might be different for pitboss.

[Swiss Pauli]

Had a look at the chat with Banana, and found a potential fly in the ointment: PAL moved a caravel into The Warning last turn. Whilst I think the long-term plan for this unit is for it to be promoted to a Frigate, it could well scupper our plan by using its 4 movement points to head to the tile 1NE of our staging point this turn. This possibility becomes a probability should PAL train another caravel from The Warning this turn (as boats are always safer when stacked).

[darrelljs]

I think we should consider not gifting Oromos. Leave PAL guessing what role, if any, we played in this.

Darrell

[mostly-harmless]

Good point. However, if Oromos are required to guarantee success, then I say never mind PAL knowing about our involvement.
I mean by now it is pretty clear where we both stand, with PAL actively supporting Templars and Imperio.

mh