Public Diplomacy Thread

[Zeviz]

We have threads for each team, but we also need a thread for things to post in a public forum. So this is what this thread is for. And the first topic of discussion is what to say about Imperio.

Here is a suggestion:

Considering their past actions, Imperio aren't in a position to complain about current payback. Here is a brief list:

1. During the cooldown period of our previous NAP they've used spies to disconnect our sole source of metal. Regardless of whether espionage is considered an act of war, preventing us from training troops to prepare for the end of NAP broke the spirit of that agreement.

2. Our current agreement that included the NAP Imperio is talking about also included following clauses:
2.1. Imperio was supposed to trade us Gunpowder. Not only did they fail to do this, but they ignored our messages about it.
2.2. Imperio was supposed to join us in war against Templars. They broke both letter and spirit of this clause by delaying their attack for so long that Templars attacked them instead.

In addition to broken agreements with us, Imperio did several other things that discouraged good relations:

3. Imperio had negotiated a trade embargo against us, denying us critical military technologies.

4. Imperio had teamed with Templars to declare war on us.

5. Later in that same war, Imperio betrayed their Templar allies by not only signing a separate peace with us, but switching sides completely and splitting Templar territory with us as part of the peace deal.

Given all the reasons listed above, Imperio can't complain about the current attack.

Team RB

EDIT: Updated based on Sulla's comments.

[Sullla]

Well, we should probably also mention that Imperio did, ya know, Declare War on us earlier in the game! That cooled relations a lot.

I'd also avoid the "broke every agreement they've signed with us" because there were some earlier that we both kept.

[Iamjohn]

I don't know how much #5 matters to the other teams, if anything it'll be seen as a detractor for us unless we more specifically flesh it out- they broke their own treaty with the templars to get where they are.

Edit: Something else to consider is to state that this isn't something that we did at the drop of a hat either, that we debated on wether to turn on imperio for quite awhile before deciding on attacking. Right now it just seems in someways like we're coming up with excuses for our war, and we don't want that to be the feeling if possible.

[Compromise]

A couple little suggestions:

In (1), change "they've" to "they". (super minor, I know)

Also, instead of

"Given all the reasons listed above, Imperio can't complain about the current attack."

perhaps:

"Because Imperio ignored their responsibilities from our most recent agreement, we must now consider that agreement broken--by them, not us--and therefore void.

"Our team takes diplomacy and our diplomatic commitments seriously. We expect the same from others. Given Imperio's history of working diplomatically (conspiring with other teams against us), secretly (using spies to destroy critical resources despite having a NAP with us), and actively (declaring war) against us, we feel that we have sufficient casus belli for our current actions. This was our last choice."

[sunrise089]

I like this just fine with Compromises excellent additions.

[Zeviz]

Updated based on comments from Compromise and Iamjohn:

Considering their past actions, Imperio aren't in a position to complain about current payback. Here is a brief list:

1. During the cooldown period of our previous NAP they used spies to disconnect our sole source of metal. Regardless of whether espionage is considered an act of war, preventing us from training troops to prepare for the end of NAP broke the spirit of that agreement.

2. Our current agreement that included the NAP Imperio is talking about also included following clauses:
2.1. Imperio was supposed to trade us Gunpowder. Not only did they fail to do this, but they ignored our messages about it.
2.2. Imperio was supposed to join us in war against Templars. They broke both letter and spirit of this clause by delaying their attack for so long that Templars attacked them instead.

In addition to broken agreements with us, Imperio did several other things that discouraged good relations:

3. Imperio had negotiated a trade embargo against us, denying us critical military technologies.

4. Imperio had teamed with Templars to declare war on us.

5. During the war between Imperio+Templars and RB, Imperio sat on sidelines doing nothing with their huge amy and betrayed their allies as soon as it became clear who is winning the war. Not only did they sign a separate peace, they made a secret agreement to split the lands of their former ally with their enemy. This kind of behavior does not make them look trustworthy even if it was to our benefit in this case.

Because Imperio ignored their responsibilities from our most recent agreement, we must consider that agreement broken -- by them, not us -- and therefore void.

Our team takes diplomacy and our diplomatic commitments seriously. We expect the same from others. Given Imperio's history of working diplomatically (conspiring with other teams against us), secretly (using spies to destroy critical resources despite having a NAP with us), and actively (declaring war) against us, we feel that we have sufficient casus belli for our current actions. This was our last choice.

Team RB

EDIT: Implemented MyOtherCar's minor change. (removing the word "now")

[dsplaisted]

Looks really good. I think we should post the public message at the same time (or maybe a bit after) we send the message to Naldo.

[T-hawk]

Can one of our Spanish speakers take a stab at translating naldo's last paragraph?

En fin espero que se trate de un error o locura de sunrise089 porque de no ser asi supondrá mi retirada immediata del juego.

I hope that it is a question of a mistake or madness of sunrise089 because of not being like that it will suppose my retreat immediata of the game.

Is he saying he's going to quit the game because of our attack? If so, do we want to try to talk him into staying, or keep quiet? I think the key word there is "retirada"...?

[dsplaisted]

Yes, he is talking about quitting the game. I am not sure if he is saying he will immediately submit his withdrawal from the game, or if he is saying he supposes he will quit the game.

[Compromise]

Should we add something in the message to Imperio that it is nothing personal against Naldo? Perhaps relations would be much better if he had been in charge since the game's beginning. (Or is it personal? I don't have a full appreciation of the nuances of the history.)

[Sullla]

I would post the message Zeviz edited/improved above. We're not going to be able to say it much better than that.

Hope that Naldo doesn't quit the game, but that's his choice. I don't think us saying anything is going to make him feel better.

[dsplaisted]

If he does quit, I hear that there are some players from a recently defeated team looking to join a new team... ;-)

Maybe we suggest they not join PAL right away?

[Zeviz]

If nobody else objects, I'll post suggested message in 3 hours.

[Iamjohn]

Minor quibble- Maybe change the last sentence from "This was our last choice" to something along the lines of "This wasn't something that we've done casually, but as something that is our last choice. We see no other viable option for ourselves." (though that seems a bit wordy...)

Other then that looks good to me!

[Swiss Pauli]

I really don't think that we should post this in the public forum at all. It's little more than brazen self-justification and a put-down of Imperio. The reception to our actions hasn't exactly been hostile from the other teams (Banana is pleased, ex-Templars are laughing, PAL says nothing as they'd have done the same, Rabbits say nothing yet). So let's not get into a public slanging match with Naldo.

Let's admit it was a backstab, but say that from day one there were problems with the treaty Naldo refers to concerning the NAP. Then we state that it's nothing personal against Naldo, but we didn't see any other options.

Keep our detailed explanations for Naldo.