Turnplayer Thread No. 6

[Dreylin]

Since this is an ex-Templar worker who has basically done nothing for 170 turns, what about Wally from Dilbert.

Other than the fact he's a newly-built Imperio, I have no objection... 8-p

EDIT: beside, Wally does exactly enough to keep his job ... isn't that what we all aspire to?

[Swiss Pauli]

Made a correction to the citizens in Bluebell for max hammers, so we'll get to 111/200 hammers which should be enough for a double whip (45h/pop).

And now I've been booted from the game...

[Swiss Pauli]

See the Backstab thread for the military situation with Imperio: http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost....&postcount=272

In domestic matters, we're good to complete Unis next turn. I have some concerns about Frozen Clams: it has 1 hammer, so I switched from a barracks to a CH, so that we can triple whip it and send overflow into the barracks. However, I'd like to mine that hill, so we could whip a worker here. Can we get a micro-manager to look at this city?

[T-hawk]

Don't bother on Frozen Clams's tundra hill. Tundra and desert hills are junk. The tile converts 2 food to 3 hammers, which is a worse ratio than a granary whip up to size 10. We'll get more hammers by whipping than by mining and working that hill.

Note that at Mutal, one cuirassier could promote to Combat 3 for a bit better odds than 25%. This battle I think will require extensive simulating. It could easily go either way.

Also, there's a small Imperio stack just NE of Mutal: one each of musket, longbow, holkan, and warrior. If we don't attack Mutal this turn, they will reach the city and probably upgrade to better defenders.

Edit: I'm not sure if everybody noticed, but Imperio ended turn and it rolled over. We are on the clock and we have until roughly 3 AM Sunday (US EDT).

[Zeviz]

A few notes from looking at the save:

1. Our economy is completely crashed, losing money at 20% research. The best cure is courthouses, because the can save about 4gpt per city, and the buildings are cheap for us. We can also build banks in some commerce cities, but those take longer.

1.1. Contantinopole should switch from Theatre to Courthouse now. Theatre does nothing for the city. (Changed myself.)
1.2. FC should put Courthouse on top of the queue. Barracks don't do much for draft city, and whipping Courthouse will save us another 4 gpt.
1.3. Damascus should work on Courthouse. Theatre is useless because we are Creative. (Changed myself.)
1.4. In Bluebell Fields, Bank will give more benefit than Courthouse while running max cash, but will take twice longer to build. So I recommend putting in Courthouse before Bank.
1.5. Chichen Itza should start on Granary, then Courthouse. Theatre is useless, because we are Creative.
1.6. Red Herring and China Beach should work on Courthouses after finishing current builds.

2. Red Herring lost production invested into units, so I removed them from queue.

3. If we road towards Imperio's retreating stack from SW (the tile NW of Acre), we will not have to protect our workers.

4. After Mutal falls, it should be safe for military engineers to connect our road network to Imperio's, allowing surviving horses to retreat more quickly.

5. Would it be worthwhile to whip Jerusalem's courthouse, or is whipping workers from grassland mines a bad idea?

PS Why do we keep putting Theatres on the top of queues in new cities? We are creative, so they are useless, and we need courthouses as default builds instead. (Each new city costs us over 8gpt.)

[Sullla]

Zeviz, we build theatres in newly conquered cities so that they will expand borders quickly. It's not just about the first border expansion either; Creative + theatre gets a second expansion in 20t. It might sound pointless in the short-term, but it makes a big difference in the long run.

I would also like to see more courthouses finished. However, I don't believe that we should drop everything that's going on right now to add more of them, especially since some of those build queues have been planned out for a long time. Unilaterally adding or deleting things from build queues is not really the polite thing to do in a game like this. Personally, I hope that sooooo will be back soon to look over a lot of this stuff and add another voice to the micro economic management.

[T-hawk]

Sullla - I am around and available all night. If you want someone to ride shotgun, ping me, best way to get my attention is AIM at "tic tac hawk". I'll be engrossed in Adventure 38 otherwise.

Zeviz has some points - seriously, we can find something more useful than a redundant theater to sink hammers into. We do need courthouses as soon as feasible too, but there are a lot of other things going on too.

[sunrise089]

Right - of course we should have a discussion, but theaters are not worthless builds. Just look at how much tactical importance the number of border pops had at Cape Town and Jericho.

[T-hawk]

7/25/09 8:17 pm Naldoimperio Score decreased to 1051
7/25/09 8:17 pm sunrise089 Score increased to 1494

[sunrise089]

Turn 170

City Report:
*Airstrip 1 - University due in 1. Market on hold.
*Pink Dot - University due in 1.
*China Beach - University due in 10. Cat on hold.
*Cape Town - Cuirassier due in 1.
*Something Fishy - University due in 5.
*Green Acres - Islamic Missionary due in 18.
*Mellow Yellow - Bank due in 171.
*Saxon the Beach - University due in .
*Bluebell Fields - University due in 8. Bank on hold.
*Red Herring - Forge due in 2.
*Upper Burgundy - Barracks due in 4.
*Frozen Clams - Barracks due in 21.
*Jericho - Cat due in 1.
*Jerusalem - Courthouse due in 5.
*Jungle Fever - Granary due in 44.
*Sweet Tooth - Granary due in 53.
*Constantinople - Theater build canceled. Courthouse due in 8.
*San Sebastien - Granary due in 52.
*Chichen Itza - Theater due in 51.
*Damascus - Theater build canceled. Courthouse due in 121.

Worker Report:
*Ouch - no advice from Soooo (or did I miss it?) so I'm on my own, this won't be pretty
*Erik starts to pasture Constantinople's horses without wasting a turn.
*Bob and Nok Tok move to the same horse tile but don't have a worker movement this turn. This will allow us to finish the horse pasture next turn however.
*Yojojo started chopping the last forest at A1.
*John put a free turn into chopping a jungle at Jungle Fever.
*Syme put a free turn into a farm on a plains tile at Pink.
*Winston and Dave finished the farm south of Cape Town.
*Steve moved back onto a road.
*Helmholtz put another free turn into the plains farm south of A1.
*Bernard finished the same farm.
*New Worker put a turn into a plains cottage south of Chichen Itza.

Domestic Military Composition Report:
*Chichen Itza garrison - 2 Oromos
*Northern defensive units - 2 Oromos, 1 axe, 2 archers.
*Jericho garrison - 1 archer.
*Constantinople garrison - 1 Oromo, 1 cat.
*Damascus garrison - 1 Oromo, 2 longbows, 1 pike.
*Southern army - 7 Oromos, 3 elephants, 8 maces, 2 pikes, 5 cats, 2 chariots.

Enemy Military Composition Report:
*Imperio southern troops: 1 Cuirassier, 3 maces, 1 pike, 1 longbow, 4 cats...I think.

Military Action Report:
*Imperio made an error not camping their musket in defensive terrain at Constantinople. Normally I'd place an Oromo is both the forest and the hill to block the tiles, but since the enemy musket withdrew anyways I assume it won't turn around, and we need the troops in the south. So I send two Oromo's south with two cats, and keep 1 Oromo in the city with two more able to reinforce.
*Imperio has no chance to move their small wounded stack to safety. Next turn we should advance our stack on Calakmul by moving on the tile 2W of Damascus. That tile allows us to hit the Imperio units before they can make it in any city.
*Mutal Battle: (sorry guys, I promoted wrong - I thought the first battle wounded the longbow enough to promote to Formation)
-->Cuirassier vs GG longbow at 26% - Dies and wounds to 3.8
-->Cuirassier vs pike at 33% - Dies and wounds to .3
-->Cuirassier vs GG longbow at 76% - Wins! Also, GG born!
-->Cuirassier vs Cuirassier at 68% - Wins!
-->HA vs pike at 99.9% - Wins and razes Mutal!
*Four horse archers retreated towards Cape Town. There is no point trying to cover our victorious units with a Holkan, Mustket, and a Pike in the area
*The four HAs could have threatened Oxhuitza, but Imperio can cover the city with their small musket/holkan stack.
*The new GG headed southeast from Saxon, perhaps he should settle in GA.

Spy Report:
*Probably time to consider building a spy for the Imperio campaign.

Questions and notes:
*I only drafted GA this turn. If anyone knows what others cities are OK to draft please feel free to draft them and move the units forward if we're before the 24 hour mark.
*Confucianism spread for free into Frozen Clams.

[Dreylin]

I think we need to whip those Unis this turn per sooooo's master plan - that way A1 starts on Oxford next turn.

[Sullla]

I read the good news on CivStats too before logging on to these forums. You should have seen the grin on my face when "Naldoimperio Score decreased to 1051" showed up.

sunrise, don't feel bad about the battle at Mutal. We got the city, and all of those Mounted units won everlasting glory as a result. I do wish I could have been on chat to make one minor suggestion (two HAs pillage the iron tile, then move one W, to prevent Imperio from founding a junk city and reconnecting iron - none of the pike/musket units can reach the tile 1W of the iron) but it's ultimately pretty minor. Well done!

*Bob and Nok Tok move to the same horse tile but don't have a worker movement this turn. This will allow us to finish the horse pasture next turn however.

Yeah, you're really not great with the workers, are you? They could have built a road on their current turn, then moved to the horses next turn for the pasture. That was a waste of two worker turns there, bub. Should have left it for me to do.

Anyway, I'll take a look tomorrow morning, too tired tonight after writing through a pair of lectures today. I don't want to sweat the small stuff, cause we burned down the Imperio capital! Oh yeah!

[Iamjohn]

Grats all! It's great to see imperio burning!

[Kodii]

A feast for the eyes:

[Zeviz]

Sorry about queue changes. I didn't see any discussion about those Theatres, so I thought they were just Sunrise's placeholders.

As for whether to build Theatres or Courthouses, they take about same time to build and Courthouses save about 4gpt each. Is that extra 3cpt from Theatres in areas that will soon be ours anyway worth 4gpt at the time when we are nearly bankrupt?

About HAs, if we had covered wounded curassiers with them, would they be top defenders? If so, it probably would have been better to use them for that.

PS We have to whip universities this turn according to Sooooo's master plan. Can somebody do this?