Operation Joshua

[kjara]

@sullla Can find/create an irc room somewhere perhaps for chatting?

Edit: e.g. something like this http://webchat.xs4all.nl/index.php has browser-based connecting, so no software for people to dl, I'm pretty sure if we created a room with some random name, it would be secure enough.

[sunrise089]

If you want to download TeamSpeak, for free, my clan's server ID is 64.237.38.194:9535

Just log in as Anonymous but choose a nickname.

I can log into a chat room as well, but it's easier to talk. Others can at least listen in and you can also right-click to text.

[Kodii]

sunrise, are you planning to begin right when the clock ticks over? (~3.5 hours from now)

[sooooo]

Right, it sounds a bit weird but I've had success with:

Send in 4 city raider cats. Two of them did no damage to their macemen defenders, the other two both wounded macemen to 4-5 health out of 8. All died, but the last two did have 21% withdraw odds. If you only send in 3 cats then the first knight only has 51% against the pike. The fourth gives you 71%.

Then all 3 knights. The first knight had 71% odds on the single pike and won. The second kills a spearman at 88%. Then, importantly, the third one fights a crossbow and easily wins (94%)

Then send in a horse archer against the last spearman. Mine withdrew, but had 41% odds to win. Spear wounded to 1.1/4. Now a crossbow defends against a horse archer! The second horse archer loses to the crossbow but fatally injures it.

Once they have no good crossbows, we send in 3 macemen (all won at >85% odds) and 3 horse archers (all won easily). The last battle is won by our pikeman and we took the city.

We occupy the city with 3 full-health macemen and all of the mounted units that survived. We have 2 horse archers left to cut supply lines.

This is only a loss of 4 cats and 1 horse archer, though I was lucky not to lose another HA and the first knight was only 70%.

----

Obviously I won a lot of 80-90% battles, but I think the key is to send in mounted troops, lose 1 or two but kill the 2 crossbows while doing so. They defended higher than macemen because the macemen were injured by the catapults and also one of the crossbows has CD1.

Once the mounted troops have killed or injured the crossbows, send in the macemen to kill the 3 wounded macemen. Then the horse archers to kill the axe and other injured troops.

[ruff_hi]

city raider cats? I would think that the +20% collateral damage (Barrage I) is more important that increasing the odds of the cats surviving.

[sooooo]

Barrage is a very minimal increase to the amount of collateral they do. Regoarrarr did some investigating further up the thread.

It's not the odds of the cats surviving that is important, it's the wounding of the macemen (who defend against the cats) enough to become worse defenders than crossbows when mounted units attack. The mounted units kill the crossbows after they have killed/wounded the pike and the spears, leaving our str 8 city raider macemen to kill all 3 of the wounded (4-6 health) macemen and the axe.

[sunrise089]

Ok, that sounds fine Sooooo. I leaned towards sending in 4 cats myself, though I still think the collateral promo is better I take your point about keeping maces healthy.

[sooooo]

I think another advantage of the knights before maces strategy is that I had 3 fully healthy macemen to move in and defend the city which should be more than enough to hold it. I probably had more wounded (and dead) mounted units, but they can make it inside the city (or retreat) on the same turn. I predict we will lose all 4 cats, 0-1 knights, and 1-3 HAs.

[regoarrarr]

Barrage vs. no barrage gains us about 1-2 HP. A pike hit by a no barrage cat was 5.5/6, vs. 5.4/6 for one with barrage 1.

I am leaning towards suiciding at least 4, if not 5, 6 or 7 cats. I think it is most important that we minimize loss of our maces and knights, even at the point of sacrificing cats.

[sooooo]

The problem is that we need cats to take on the southern Templar stack (either if they advance on pink dot or the head north to jericho). Leaving 3 catapults will just about be OK. Leaving no catapults leaves us vulnerable. Remember that we have mounted reserves at Upper Burgundy (1 knight, 2 chariots and I think 2 HAs). We have no reserves of catapults.

[kjara]

@so, how do the odds change if you do 5 cr cats rather than 4? I guess the concern is that 2 cats won't be enough for def, but can we put cape town on building cats for the next few turns as well(and get them to jericho in what, 2 or 3 turns) or even start down 1-2 of the capetown cats with a defender now and build to replace them.

I have to agree that keeping a few maces for def is good, but do we also want to keep one healthy knight for def? What if we start with 2 knights and start throwing the ha's in after the knights take down/out the pike and one spear? Edit: Would follow so's plan for this, so keep throwing ha's till the xbows are eliminated or fatally hurt, then start with the maces.

[sooooo]

We'll have to play it by ear because the pikeman in the sim has a +25% fortify bonus which he does not actually have in the game. But the collateral to the pike is not the same every time, it relies on luck.

It's hard to sim 5 vs 4 cats. With 5 cats I still had 70% on the pike with the first knight, but that's because I left the defences at 20% (in reality they are 18%, the above was fought at 12% when they should be at 14% - complicated by the fact that the sim doesn't have walls and it's a pain to set them up and have them at the right defence).

Strangely it works out worse to hit with 5 cats. 4 cats is just enough to make the CD crossbow better defenders than macemen. So the 5th cat hits the crossbow.

The knight goes in and loses to the pike at 70%. We haven't got enough macemen to run through the other troops and kill the pike and still occupy the city with a healthy mace, so there is no avoiding a knight vs pike matchup.

However, the problem is that because the crossbow was wounded slightly below the mace by the fifth catapult, the remaining mounted units can only strike against spears and then macemen, and never fight a crossbow. The macemen still have 50-60% odds on the remaining 2 crossbows (both at 3.5/6 health).

If we hit with 5 cats instead of 4 we (a) lose another cat and (b) stop the ability of our mounted units to kill crossbows, exposing our macemen to 50-65% battles.


But all of this will be slightly different in the game because of the RNG.

I would say do this: bombard with 2 cats. Send in CR cats until a crossbow is the top defender, then stop. Hopefully the knight should have good (>70% odds) on the pike. Bombard with the remaining cat if there is one. Or we could bombard with all 3 cats first and rely on injuring the maces enough. Probably the first option is better.

Send in the knights and then HAs until all the pikes, spears and crossbows die or are fatally wounded (we take some losses). Send in the macemen to kill the wounded maces, spears and the axeman.

[sooooo]

I have to agree that keeping a few maces for def is good, but do we also want to keep one healthy knight for def?

Only the first knight (up against the pike) should either die or get seriously injured. The second and third knight have good odds and shouldn't take much damage. They can defend too because they can move into the city on the same turn as they kill someone.

[sooooo]

Unfortunately I cannot stay awake and watch the battle unfold. I'll check it out in the morning (my birthday!) and see the presents General Sunrise will provide.

P.S: When asked, select "Taj Mahal" at Bluebell Woods
P.P.S: Watch out for an Imperio log in as the timer runs down.

[Zeviz]

...
Send in the knights and then HAs until all the pikes, spears and crossbows die or are fatally wounded (we take some losses). Send in the macemen to kill the wounded maces, spears and the axeman.

Do spears always defend ahead of the unpromoted crossbow? Because if they don't we can save some HAs by switching to maces earler. Even if we have fewer maces left for defence, we don't expect an immediate massive counterattack, and saving a couple HAs sounds good.

Also, using fewer cats to bombard means that CR cats will cause less damage to maces, so maybe we should bombard with all 3 cats first.