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  • Operation Joshua

    As RB Chief Thread-Spammer, I decided that Operation Joshua was too awesome of a name to not get its own thread

    First post is the copy of sunrise's plan from the Cape Town thread. Next I will post my sit-rep from T146.
    Originally posted by sunrise
    *Pink Dot is almost totally undefended, so we had better hope the Templar units retreat towards Jericho rather than press up on Pink.
    *Any units we use from the Cape Town garrison will be visible by Templars the turn before we move them in. We should discuss which tile looks the most like a simple repositioning rather than a prelude to an advance.
    *We would need 9 cats to fully bombard down Jericho's defenses for a t147 attack, leaving Cape Town with only a single cat.

    I think an attack on turn 149 might work.
    *T144 - Jericho's defenses stand at 42%.
    *T145 - Jericho's defenses stand at 38%.
    *T146 - Jericho's defenses stand at 34%.
    *T147 - Jericho's defenses stand at 30%. Units from Pink Dot move NE onto the desert road tile between the peaks. 2 cats from Cape Town move south along the road no later than this turn....we may want to move them south and then past Jericho earlier to disguise what we're doing though.
    *T148 - Jericho's defenses stand at 26%. 2 workers, 5 maces and 4 cats from Pink Dot, 2 knights and 2 cats from Cape Town, and all of our 2-movers from the central garrison move into the Jericho forest. Also as of t148 we need at least three knights to have been produced and stationed south of Upper Burgundy in order to relieve the Pink Dot defenders sent north.
    *T149 - Bombard defenses with 6 cats down to 2%. Sacrifice 1 cat attacking the city. Maces attack (only the one attacking the healthy crossbow at 9.6v11.7 won't have odds) and capture/burn Jericho. Workers road the Jericho forest.
    *T150 - Chariots/horse archers cut any roads connecting Templars to Jericho or the city ruins. Any cats not needed for a counterattack return north, and can hit Imperio attacks on turn 151. Likewise any horse archers unused in the battle can head south should Templars advance on Pink Dot, and can attack Templar units on t151.

    Here's what our armies would look like if we go with a T149 attack. This assumes we'll configure Pink Dot, Airstrip 1, and Something Fishy as necessary to produce three knights before we move in, and that Cape Town will produce a pair of knights itself.
    *Cape Dot army - 9 strength-8 units, 2 pikes, 1 axe, 2 cats, 4 archers.
    *Pink Dot army - 3 knights, 1 elephant, 2 pikes, 1 longbow, 2 archers.
    *Jericho army - 2 knights, 6 maces, 7 horse archers, 1 pike, 7 cats, 2 chariots.

    The touchiest situation would be if Templars move their entire force against Pink Dot on t148. They could hit the city on turn 150 before any other RB units could make it inside the city. However, we will have odds with all three of our horse archers and the elephant attacking out against the Templar stack. If we manage four victories, that will only leave the Templars a horse archer, crossbow, sword, and three chariots to kill a longbow, 2 pikes, and 2 archers in Pink. Even with three cats, that isn't happening against a 40% city on a hill. And remember, if Templars wait a turn to bombard our horse archers are back in the fight.

    All that said, I'm very confident about this plan, provided Templars don't reinforce their southern army with 2-3 more high-strength units before turn 148. If they do we're going to need to either delay the attack or be willing to slave an equal number of units of our own in the south.

    @Swiss - As long as we pillage the roads connecting Jericho to the Templar land I hope they try to retake the city. With all of the cats we'll have on hand and our 2-movers at more or less full health we'll crush their stack of maces and crossbows. It would be touchier if they could hit us on turn 149, but they can't due to a lack of roads.

  • #2
    And of course we start with the running Krill gag

    Originally posted by krill
    So on what turn will Pink Dot be totally undefended?
    I logged in today to get a sit-rep of our armies. Here is the various armies, the tiles they are on as of T146, and which of our 3 armies they belong to
    • Strike Force Jericho (J)
    • Pink Dot Defense (P)
    • Cape Town Defense (C)
    • Unassigned or it was unclear to me (U)

    • On the tile N-NW of Pink Dot, we have 4 cats (J), 5 maces (J), 1 Ele (P). The Jericho armies will move to the signed desert tile on T147, and to the forest NW of Jericho on T148
    • On the forest NW of Jericho we have a mace, pike and cat (all J) - these guys are already in place and have already completed 5 circuits around the city walls
    • In Cape Town, there are 2 pikes, 1 ax, and 4 archers (C) and 1 knight (J)
    • On the tile 1S of Cape Town, 4 maces (C), 5 elephants (C), and 6 cats (2C, 2J and 2U)
    • On the hill ESE of Pink Dot, 1 longbow on a hill (P)
    • 3 North of Pink Dot, 1 Horse Archer (J)
    • Near Upper Burgundy, 6 Horse Archers (J). All 7 horse archers will move to the desert tile on T147 and to the forest NW of Jericho on T148
    • In Pink Dot, 2 pikes and 2 archers (P)
    • 2 west of Pink Dot, 2 chariots (P)
    • Knight due to be whipped in Pink Dot on T147 (U)
    • Knight due in Airstrip One on T148/9(U)
    • Knight due in Something Fishy in T150 if not whipped(U)
    • Knight due in Cape Town on T148 (J)


    So, if I add correctly,
    • Strike Force Jericho (J) - 7 cats, 6 maces, 1 pike, 2 knights, 7 horse archers
    • Pink Dot Defense (P) - 1 ele, 1 longbow, 2 pikes, 2 chariots, 2 archers
    • Cape Town Defense (C) - 2 pikes, 1 ax, 4 archers, 4 maces, 5 elephants, 2 cats
    • Unassigned or it was unclear to me (U) - 2 cats, 3 knights


    I know we talked about moving those knights to Pink Dot for defense, but we can play it by ear if we need them in Jericho or not. Also, there were 2 extra cats that I was not sure if they were desired at Jericho or if they should stay at Cape Town for defense vs. Imperio if necessary.

    T147 - the Jericho strike force should all congregate on the desert tile

    If we need the knight out of A1 on T148, we have to swap off the cottage back to the mine.

    --Lieutenant keek

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Krill
      So on what turn will Pink Dot be totally undefended?
      I approve of this posters straightforwardness in the face of adversity.
      You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

      Comment


      • #4
        This thread seems as good a place as any for this:



        Pertinent Points

        - The Apostolic Palace is located in Damascus, and is Christian.

        - We are a Voting Member (Pink Dot, and, potentially, Jericho).

        - Banana doesn't have a Christian city (yet), so a vote for Diplo Win is not possible. If it were possible then at least one other civ must vote for the winner in order for a Religious Victory to be won.

        - Defying an AP resolution will cost 5 for 20 turns in each Christian city. This penalty can be shortened (number of turns unknown) by having other religions in cities with Christianity.

        - The vote to 'assign City N from Civ X to Y' can only happen if civ X & Y aren't at war.

        - AP votes are held every 10 turns, starting with a vote for the Resident. Four votes can then be proposed by the Resident until the next election.

        Comment


        • #5
          Good work regoarrarr, I'll take a more detailed look tonight.

          Originally posted by regoarrarr View Post
          If we need the knight out of A1 on T148, we have to swap off the cottage back to the mine.
          Done.

          Comment


          • #6
            Can we name one of our knights Joshua?

            Comment


            • #7
              Hey, we can't have one of these threads without some snazzy pictures!



              Well one, anyway. (More to come on succeeding turns as we move forward.) I labeled our forces with the same nomenclature that regoarrarr used above, J for the Jericho strike team, P for the Pink Dot defense, and C for the Cape Town defense (which is off screen to the north). The yellow arrows provide a visual illustration of our attack plan to reach Jericho.

              I put in two additional features. First, the two black Xs mark forest tiles that we will want to road (and probably chop as well) should we be successful in capturing Jericho. There are Templar soldiers all over the place at the moment, so we certainly can't build them in the immediate future. I am expecting the Templars to retreat these units when they see our attack, which may potentially open up the opportunity for some more aggressive road building in this area. We will have to play this by ear, obviously, but it helps to start thinking about this ahead of time. The Templar road network is not up to par, and that's going to cost them! Failure to road the tile NW of their Pink Dot stack in the south is just criminally negligent, because it prevents that stack from being able to defend Jericho if needed. They're going to lose a city as a result of that error.

              Secondly, while this is something that sunrise is assuredly thinking about, I want to bring it to the rest of the team's attention. Again assuming that we are successful at Jericho, we may have the potential to raze Constantinople in a lightning raid with double-movers. Constantinople is well behind the Templar lines, and it's entirely possible that they have just an archer in there. (Certainly look at our backline cities for comparison!) Depending on what we see in Jericho, we could possibly move a couple of units SE-SE on T149, and then SE-E on T150 and be in the city before they can shift units to react. Again, this assumes that we are successful at Jericho, remember. Keep in mind that the Templars are not in Slavery civic and cannot react quickly to our moves. Plus, they're the Templars, the same team that asked if we had Literature after building the Great Library.

              I'm not saying this *WILL* happen, but it's a possibility if our attack goes well, and we should indeed be thinking about it. That's why sunrise is sending those 7 horse archers along with the maces and cats. Anyway, one last comment: the initial plan called for sending 2 knights along with the Joshua forces. Do we want to send a third one instead, and keep 2 knights back to defend Pink? sunrise, what are your thoughts on this now that we get closer to the actual attack? I also concur that we should try to avoid whipping the knight at Something Fishy if possible; maybe send 2 knights to Jericho, and rely on the SF knight to defend Pink?
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                the tile marked 't147' ... that is visible to templars ... isn't it? As such, they will see us park a large number of units on that tile. Is this time for some diplomatic mis-direction ... something like ...

                "Dear Templars,

                While we are seeking peace deals, Imperio is moving to attack us in the North. I thought you were talking to them about peace too. We are not a team that will sit by and talk while other teams attack us.

                Can you please double your efforts to bring Imperio to the peace table?

                Regards"


                Or is that a little too obvious?
                Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

                Comment


                • #9
                  They do not have visibility on the T147 tile.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My (no MP experience) thoughts would be that we could send the PD knight (in addition to the 2 CT knights) in Strike Force Jericho, counting on the SF knight and the one from A1 to guard Pink Dot.

                    My other concern is the 3 new Imperio knights - if Cape Town defense needs any knights up there

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Pink Dot and Something Fishy knights should stay in the south. If the A1 knight is done on turn 148 it can participate on the attack on Jericho. Of course we need to be open to the possibility of emergency whips in any of our southern or central cities.

                      3 Imperio knights are no threat in the short term. However with our current number of elephants essentially our only supply and with pikes being weak units, the best counter will be to keep pumping knights of our own. Until we can build Oromos we need to just pump knights and cats, which should do a fine job at keeping pace with anything Imperio is building.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The A1 knight will be done on T148, so it will be ready. We may even be able to swap back over to the cottage from the mine next turn and still have it due on T148.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by regoarrarr View Post
                          My other concern is the 3 new Imperio knights - if Cape Town defense needs any knights up there
                          Don't be concerned, there are no Imperio knights yet.
                          I was assuming that Imperios recent 90hammer builds were Knights, especially since they were started right after they got Guilds.
                          However, Imperio decided that they are better off with a couple of Libraries and a Colosseum (Ball Court UB). What was I thinking.

                          mh

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Updated picture of the attack in progress for T147:



                            Also note the two workers (circled in red) who finished chopping at Upper Burgundy this turn, and who will presumably go along with the army next turn to road our passage into Jericho. Nice planning!

                            Bonus from the C&D thread: Soldier count analysis of Templars, to try and give us an idea of what we'll face when we attack.



                            First the numbers on the bar graphs. It should be clear that we've continued to increase our military forces, while Templars and (especially) Imperio have slowed down dramatically. Now for the numbers game:

                            Templars Soldier Points = 327k

                            Population: 32 pop points = 16k

                            Technology: Sailing, Hunting, Mining, Animal Husbandry (2k each) = 8k
                            Wheel, Alphabet, Metal Casting, Compass, Construction (4k each) = 20k
                            Mathematics, Archery (6k each) = 12k
                            Bronze Working, Machinery (8k each) = 16k
                            Horseback Riding, Iron Working (10k each) = 20k
                            Total = 76k

                            City Improvements/Wonders
                            Jerusalem: Barracks, Forge = 5k
                            Constantinople: Barracks (?), Forge (?) almost certain = 5k
                            Damascus: Barracks, Forge = 5k
                            Jericho: Walls, Forge = 4k
                            Acre: nothing
                            Total = 19k

                            This leaves 216k Soldier points for units.

                            Visible/Known units:

                            Quechua in extreme south = 2k

                            Pink Dot stack:
                            2 maces (9k each) = 19k
                            1 horse archer = 6k
                            2 crossbows (7k each) = 14k
                            1 sword = 6k
                            3 cats (5k each) = 15k
                            3 chariots (4k each) = 12k
                            1 spear = 4k
                            Total = 76k

                            Central stack:
                            1 crossbow = 7k
                            1 axe = 5k
                            Total = 12k

                            Jericho defense:
                            1 mace = 9k
                            1 horse archer = 6k
                            1 crossbow = 7k
                            1 axe = 5k
                            3 spears (4k each) = 12k
                            Total = 39k

                            Total visible = 129k
                            Missing = 87k

                            Figure 25-30k for defense garrisons in other cities, and that leaves roughly 50-60k worth of units unaccounted for. Templars likely have a moderate-sized stack of units somewhere in their territory, although where is anyone's guess. Hopefully a lot of un-upgraded swords, spears, and axes.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hmmm.....well that's actually a pretty decent behind-the-scenes stack. However the beauty of the Joshua plan is our units sit in defensive terrain until they actually attack the city, so if Templars don't have the units in Jericho on T149 we're still in good shape.

                              I guess we'll know later this week.

                              PS - Nice work calculating all of this Sullla.

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