Project Taj Mahal?

[regoarrarr]

Ah - crossposted. I was going to say that I thought I could get the forest chops aligned to get it in 6 turns with maybe using 1 more worker, but since it looks like even 7 turns to Nationalism is a bit of a stretch, probably safe to just shoot for 7 turns.

I'm sure we can wring out the beakers!

[darrelljs]

PAL has the Masoleum, so denial is extra nice. And if we fail, all those Marble boosted chops will give us plenty of cash back. That would be a neat city for the National Park wonder (or whatever it is called), but that's so far in the future its not worth waiting for.

Darrell

[sooooo]

I do not think we need to aim for 7 turns, since nationalism is probably not going to be in for then. If we could get it in 9-10 turns with, say, only 2 workers stolen from Green Acres and a new worker from CB in 4 turns (starting to build him next turn) then that would be better.

Missionary is 3 turns from Airstrip One. It will only take the missionary 1 turn to get from A1 to BW and spread the religion. We need to make a decision this turn on whether to interrupt A1's knight to build a missionary. Probably we do. Sorry sunrise!

[regoarrarr]

What about whipping a missionary from Saxon, with overflow into Moai? That seems like better than interrupting the HA / Knight at A1, especially since Templars / IMperio are going to be fielding their own knights before too long...

I will try some other plans to see how few workers we can get away with at what turn level

[sooooo]

OK, let's assume we have 4 workers (Bernard, Steve, O'Brien and Helmholtz) in order to leave 2 workers for Sunrise's plans at Jericho. They each have to chop two forests each.



If the forest we want to leave is the plains forest I (for saxon to use), then we need one more worker turn because the tundra forest J takes an extra turn to chop. That can be gotten if we build a worker this turn at China Beach. Plan is: Turn 146 they each go into a forest. Steve to A, Helmholtz to J, Bernard to F and O'Brien to E. Turn 150 3 of the workers finish the chop. Helmholtz is still chopping the tundra tile. Turn 151 those 3 workers move into forests B, C and D. Helmholtz finishes his chop. Turn 152 Helmholtz moves into forest H and is joined by a new worker from China Beach. Turn 154 all of the forests finish chopping. Taj on turn 155.

We will want to get the other hammers probably from a whip of the forge. We may need to delay the forge by 1 turn, assuming we get nationalism on turn 149.

[regoarrarr]

Do we have C&D info on where PAL might be building the Taj?

[sooooo]

Not yet. They only got nationalism this turn. Next turn it may be possible. While m-h away, could Sullla take a look at the PAL cities next turn?

[mostly-harmless]

I think I will be back before T146 ends.

mh

[Sullla]

Not yet. They only got nationalism this turn. Next turn it may be possible. While m-h away, could Sullla take a look at the PAL cities next turn?

Absolutely, if mh can't make it back this weekend. However, spotting a wonder build doesn't really take a genius to figure out. One city will suddenly start getting a sabotage cost in the thousands! What will matter is trying to determine the ETA for Taj, which we should be able to do pretty easily. PAL is Industrious and has marble, so it may be close. Mostly it will depend on how willing they are to chop forests; one thing in our favor will be the fact that PAL probably won't realize that they are in a tight wonder race, and may approach things in laid back fashion. Let's hope so!

Our other "project" threads on wonders were 3 for 3, hopefully we can keep batting 1.000

[Swiss Pauli]

PAL switched back to Confu & Org Rel last turn, so it's a racing certainty that they've started Taj somewhere...*logs in to check sabotage costs*...Pi-Ram has a sab prod cost of 651, but we're only just got sight into this city. The most likely locations are PAL's two 'mystery cities': the one that we suppose has irrigated plains wheat, plains cows, 2 plains mines and 2 grass mines (and some 3 grass farms, I assume) would seem the better choice. What it lacks is forests, so we still might have a chance...can someone calculate how long it would take PAL to build Taj in this city?

[sooooo]

When I was looking for a city to build the Taj in for PAL, I thought Pi-Rameses would be best.

EDIT: Hmm, or maybe you're right, that hidden city looks quite good.

[sooooo]

Eek, I allowed too many turns for the first chop. It's one less turn. Edited schedule:

Turn 146 they each go into a forest. Steve to A, Helmholtz to J, Bernard to F and O'Brien to E. Turn 149 3 of the workers finish the chop. Helmholtz is still chopping the tundra tile. Turn 150 those 3 workers move into forests B, C and D. Helmholtz finishes his chop. Turn 151 Helmholtz moves into forest H and is joined by a new worker from China Beach Other 3 workers start chopping. Turn 153 all of the forests finish chopping. Taj on turn 154.

[regoarrarr]

If we assume that city has enough food and pop to work the wheat, 4 mines and the cows, that is 18 base hammers per turn. PAL is industrious (50%), in org rel (25%), and has marble (50%), right?

So that makes 18 * 2.25 or 40 hammers per turn.

Taj is 700 hammers, which would indicate 18 turns. That seems kind of high though.

If we assume 3 forests and 30 base hammers overflowed, that's 11 turns. We will have it done in 8.

Does that all sound right? I just did it off the top of my head

[Sullla]

Marble gives a 100% boost, not 50%. That's where your mistake lies.

Even with that correction, it still looks like PAL will take about 10 turns to build Taj, assuming they don't chop forests. Really, it all comes down to whether or not they decide to do some lumberjacking to aid in the wonder's construction. We have to hope that they feel they have an insurmountable lead, and don't need to hurry the wonder.

[ruff_hi]

marble is +100%. What about a forge? Should we factor that in too so that we can get a range?

Ind (+50), Mono (+25), Forge (+25), Marble (+100) is a total of +200%. So, the Taj only takes 700 / 3 = 233 base hammers. At 18 hammers per turn, that is 13 turns.
Ind (+50), Mono (+25), Marble (+100) is a total of +175%. So, the Taj only takes 700 / 2.75 = 254 base hammers. At 18 hammers per turn, that is 15 turns.

Each forest chop saves them 1.67 turns.

So, assume half a turn of overflow, 2 chops gives a range of (254 - 60 - 9)/18 = 10.2 turns to (233 - 60 - 9)/18 = 9.1.
With 3 forest chops, they can bring it down to a low of 7.44 turns.

It looks like they should take at least 7 to 8 turns minimum. Can we see forests disappear off the map?

Its currently T145 and sooooo has us finishing it on T154 ... 9 turns. It will be close.