Turnplayed Thread #4

[Sullla]

To answer my question, the Constantinople garrison is 41K soldier points, which means they have (I think?) about 56K soldier points for the rest of their civ, not counting the other ones we can see.

Not even that much - we had 67k Soldier points unaccounted for, and this stack is 41k of them. They have only 26k remaining, which is practically nothing. Jerusalem and Damascus must have been cleaned out to get the defenders in Constantinople, as evidenced by the lack of fortify bonus.

Anyway, please don't go moving any more units until sunrise weighs in with his assessment of the situation, which I imagine will be in a couple of hours when he gets back from work. My gut feeling is that a quick retreat back into Jericho to heal and destroy the Pink Dot invasion stack is in order. Then once we have that dealt with, in ~5 turns we pull our forces from the south (which will no longer be needed there) and go for the juggular, using our first drafted units to fill out the army. Templars only have 3 cities worth mentioning, and they won't be producing much in the way of new units. We can swarm and overwhelm them without too much trouble.

Seriously though, what is up with the tile management at Constantinople? No mine on the grassland hill tile is just unfathomable this late in the game!

EDIT: sunrise went and ninja'd me! Looks look we have pretty similar tactical views, heh.

[T-hawk]

I agree with Sunrise and Sullla. Pull out and save Constantinople for another day. Move Charismatic back 1NW, healthy mounted units towards Upper Burgundy to help out at Pink, and keep damaged units and 1-movers in Jericho. (If we were thinking ahead, we might have used that HA at 1.0 strength as an expendable scout.)

BTW, here's a crazy thought. How about using the GG to get a mounted unit to Morale + Commando? Nine moves along enemy roads for a surprise raze of a back line city!

[Dreylin]

Sadly, Commando requires Combat IV & Military Science ... so not going to be able to do that for a while. Nice thought thought!

[dsplaisted]

BTW, here's a crazy thought. How about using the GG to get a mounted unit to Morale + Commando? Nine moves along enemy roads for a surprise raze of a back line city!

That would be cool, but haven't we already used it on a Medic III which is now in Jericho?

If the Medic III is in Jericho, we should consider how quickly it will heal the units parked 1 SE of Jericho. If they can heal just as quickly outside the city perhaps we should let them heal there.

[sooooo]

I agree with Sullla, T-Hawk and Sunrise at Jericho. Let Charismatic be attacked 1SE of Jericho, if she then we may be able to kill the attacker. Maybe they won't even attack.

At Pink Dot we don't really care if they occupy the plains forest. Our longbow however can make it to the grass hill forest in time. No way should we put archers into them both in case they advance on Pink Dot this turn.

[sunrise089]

Turn 150
Get ready to veto some whip proposals

City Report:
*Airstrip 1 - Longbow due in 1. I'd like to whip this and start a knight next turn.
*Pink Dot - Cat complete. I'd like to make another cat, due in 1.
*China Beach - Knight due in 8.
*Cape Town - Cat due in 1. I plan to produce several more cats to replace losses.
*Something Fishy - Knight complete. Another knight due in 6.
*Green Acres - Globe Theater due in 12 before chops.
*Mellow Yellow - _____ complete. I set the city to finish a spy, due in 14.
*Saxon the Beach - Barracks due in 3 turns.
*Bluebell Woods - Taj due in 26.
*Red Herring - Library due in 14. I'd probably whip the Trireme and Longbow the city has hammers in, since the city doesn't have very good tiles to work.
*Upper Burgundy - Granary due in 3.
*Frozen Clams - Granary due in 54.

Worker Report:
*The five workers assigned to the Taj project moved to the tiles Soooo indicated.
*John the Savage finished a forest for the Globe.
*Bob the Builder finished a farm at Green Acres.
*Mustapha, Winston, and Erik all moved next to Pink Dot in preparation of roading a desert tile next turn.

Domestic Military Composition Report:
*Cape Town garrison - 2 elephants, 2 pikes, 1 axe, 4 archers.
*Jericho garrison - 4 maces, 1 elephant, 1 pike, a medic III chariot.
*Northern army - 2 elephants, 6 maces, 8 catapults.
*Pink Dot garrison - 2 archers.
*Southern army - 4 knights, 1 elephant, 5 horse archers, 1 cat, 1 longbow

Enemy Military Composition Report:
*Cape Town opposing force - 10 strength-8 units, 4 horse archers, 3 pikes, 6 longbows, 1 pike, and 11 cats, 1 galley.
*Pink Dot opposing force - 2 maces, 2 crossbows, 1 horse archer, 1 sword, 3 cats, 3 chariots, 1 spear, 1 Quechua.
*Central garrison - 1 crossbow, 1 axeman.
*Constantinople garrison - 1 mace, 1 crossbow, 3 longbows, 1 cat, 1 Quechua.

Military Action Report:
*Ok, here's what I'm planning.

Spoiler:

-->Next turn our three workers near Pink Dot road the desert tile 1SW of our 6 mounted units in the central desert.
-->That will allow those mounted units to hit the Templar stack outside of Pink Dot next turn if they move to attack.
-->Our worker on the grass hill N of Something Fishy is covered by a knight and the plains forest 1E of the Templar stack is covered by our longbow.
-->Even without cats, our knights will have over 70% odds on the Templar stack next turn. With the two cats we'll have in play we can easily take our nearly the entire stack next turn.

Spy Report:
*No spies

Questions and notes:
*Notice the distribution of our units in the north. We have an elephant in Jericho in case Templars want to road and hit the city with a crossbow. In Cape Town we have two Elephants in the city to deter a mounted attack after the disputed tile flips.
*Imperio's power has been very flat over the last few turns...so no real risk of knight stacks in the short term.
*Our first Trireme is in the channel between Cape Town and Chichen Itza. Any name recommendations.

[Krill]

Maybe I'm just old fashioned...but I've been informed that the 500 post/thread limit is still in place.

Hence I would appreciate it if you would start a new turn thread (Idealy with the above post moved into the thread, for obvious reasons)

[Sullla]

I would really prefer not to whip Airstrip One, as it doesn't grow very fast (+4 food) and it's our best commerce city. Plus, we'll be drafting here in the near future... I'd have to say that gets my veto stamp recommendation, unless we REALLY need another knight (and I don't think we do!) I like the call for a few cats to replace the ones we've lost over the past few turns.

Do we want to slip in an infrastructure build or two somewhere? Or wait for after we deal with Templars? We're starting to reach the point where a few more courthouses would do a world of good, to say nothing of banks. Our capital would really benefit from a bank, if we felt comfortable enough to slip one in.

I love the military plan, slipping our six mounted units back across the desert to eliminate the Templar stack near Pink. Once they're toast, we can finish the road across the desert, bring the Mounted stack back to Jericho, and start thinking about moving on Constantinople (or Jerusalem, if all of the Templar defenders move into Const. and we can cut their roads!) Let's just hope that Templars move towards Pink next turn, the way we want them to.

Is there any reason for having a 500 post limit, Krill? I've never heard of that anywhere else, and the forum software is capable of threads with thousands of posts in them. A legacy of Apolyton's startup period when the tech was more primitive?

[Krill]

Yup...You're right, I don't think it is written anywhere. I do know it's enforced though. Call it a cultural hangover.

Then again I'm used to 1 thread/turn, so I'm probably biased.

[T-hawk]

The Templars diplo thread is well over 1,000 replies. IIRC, the Apolyton forum software used to enforce 500 but an upgrade a few months ago removed that. Unless you mean that 500 is buried in one of the "forum rules" screeds somewhere.

I agree with Sullla - please do not whip Airstrip One! Each cottage tile here is worth 2.25x as much as elsewhere thanks to Bur/Academy. I think it should do a bank ASAP. One city on commerce infrastructure, thanks to the multipliers and mature villages, is way better than zero cities on commerce infrastructure.

[sunrise089]

The Templars diplo thread is well over 1,000 replies. IIRC, the Apolyton forum software used to enforce 500 but an upgrade a few months ago removed that. Unless you mean that 500 is buried in one of the "forum rules" screeds somewhere.

I agree with Sullla - please do not whip Airstrip One! Each cottage tile here is worth 2.25x as much as elsewhere thanks to Bur/Academy. I think it should do a bank ASAP. One city on commerce infrastructure, thanks to the multipliers and mature villages, is way better than zero cities on commerce infrastructure.

Oh, I know you guys won't actually go for these suggestions...I just like putting them out there to make sure the short term side has its voice heard

[sooooo]

Right, Sunrise, your plan to move those mounted units through the desert via roading next turn is genius. Templars could be finished if they advance on Pink this turn.

However, your city builds leave something to be desired!

Airstrip One: Nononono please let's not whip this city. It only has a 2-food excess. I think once it grows we should work the plains mine and build a bank as fast as possible. We could do with getting banking this turn.
Something Fishy: A knight is not a sensible option because it won't finish naturally before we have to give horses back. And we really can't whip this city. We'll draft it on turn 154 back to size 6 where it is working some great tiles (3 x mine, dyes, fish and marble). No whipping please! I'd go for a spy or a catapult. Spy preferred.
Mellow Yellow: We can't whip this city until T154 because it needs to be size 6 to draft from. I'd set it as max-growth and build a courthouse.
Red Herring: Nononono don't whip anything from this city until it is drafted (again, not to sound like a broken record, at size 6).

[kjara]

I agree with sooooo, with the exception that I'd weakly prefer a cat instead of a spy out of something fishy. Strongly against whipping airstrip(and in favor of a bank there), but would be fine with a knight before the bank if we have to invest hammers in something before banking is traded(and if would finish before horses are canceled).

[Zeviz]

I agree with Soooo's build suggestions, and have to add a reminder about worker actions:

We still have no cottages in the south!

It's been almost 50 turns since we've founded those commerce cities, but they still aren't proper commerce cities. After Project Taj Mahal is over, we have to send half a dozen workers there to make sure every grassland tile has a cottage on it. We also need to start building courthouses, but cottages are an even more immediate need.

[sunrise089]

I agree with Soooo's build suggestions, and have to add a reminder about worker actions:

We still have no cottages in the south!

It's been almost 50 turns since we've founded those commerce cities, but they still aren't proper commerce cities. After Project Taj Mahal is over, we have to send half a dozen workers there to make sure every grassland tile has a cottage on it. We also need to start building courthouses, but cottages are an even more immediate need.

Zevis,

Your point is well taken, but we need to keep something else in mind:

In tech trading games it doesn't pay too much to fly way out ahead in tech, since you start to loose trading partners. I know in SP we emphasize commerce, but in MP hammers are so important. That doesn't mean I don't like cottages, but it does mean we need to generate hammers through some method. Cities on all cottages who don't whip aren't going to contribute a whole lot to our civ during wartime. After all, getting Nationalism a few turns earlier would have done almost nothing for us, whereas 5-10 fewer units would have made either the capture of Jericho, or the defense of one of our border cities impossible.

PS - We still have plenty of commerce tiles in the south, even if we could have more cottages.