Operation "Barb City Snatch"

[mostly-harmless]

The C&D department is putting forward a plan to snatch a barb city on PALs northern border.

Duration: T116 - T122

Forces involved:
Lady Godiva (Chariot) - current mission: scout Imperio /Templar
RBS Discovery (Galley) - current mission: scout The Channel
Jennifer (Warrior) - current mission: hang around PALs SoD

Expected gains:
Scenario A:
- Razing a barb city for cash (100+gold ?)
- Denying PAL the city - slowing down PALs expansion
- Accumulating XP for land forces involved
Scenario B:
- Keeping barb city
- Acquiring a foothold on Eastern continent
- Accumulating XP for land forces involved

Identified risks:
- Barb city well defended leading to abortion of operation at an advanced stage
- PAL anticipating our move leading to PAL attacking the city before us

Outline of operation:
Phase 1 - Scouting (T115 - T117)
Lady Godiva and RBS Discovery follow prescribed movement patterns identical to current missions.
Jennifer gathers intel on Barb City defenses resulting in either operation status "Go ahead" or "Aborted".


Detailed movement orders:
T116:
Lady Godiva: N-N (B11)
RBS Discovery: SE-SW (C6)
Jennifer: N-W (N4) (important to get line of sight onto horse pasture- whether to pillage later or already pillaged by PAL)

T117:
Jennifer: NW (M3) (important to move first -> line of sight into Barb City -> decision on operation continuation)
IF "Go ahead"
Lady Godiva: N-N-NW (A8)
RBS Discovery: S-W (B7)

Phase 2 - Approach (T118 - T121)
Lady Godiva moves into attack position while Jennifer either keeps watch on the target or detours to pillage the horses. RBS Discovery is released from operation after ferry duty.
Depending on defense status or outbreak of hostilities with Imperio, operation can be aborted at any time.


Detailed movement orders:
T118:
Lady Godiva: NE onto RBS Discovery (B7)
RBS Discovery: NE-N (C5)
Jennifer: i) moves into scouting position NW (L2) or ii) detours to pillage horses SE (N4)

T119:
RBS Discovery: NE (D4) unloads Lady Godiva and is released from operation with one movement point left
Lady Godiva: NE (E3)
Jennifer: i) remains in position (L2) or ii) detours to pillage horses E-NE (P3)

T120:
Lady Godiva: NE-E (G2)
Jennifer: i) remains in position (L2) or ii) pillages horses (P3)

T121:
Lady Godiva: SE-NE (I2)
Jennifer: i) moves into attack support position SW (K3) or ii) returns from pillage mission SW-W (N4)

Phase 3 - Attack (T122)
T122:
Lady Godiva: E-E (K2) Attack on target
Jennifer: i) N (K2) support attack on target or ii) returns from pillage mission NW (N3)

Phase 3 can be delayed if Scenario B is followed (capture target at size 2). C&D believes that Barb City spawned at T115 and works the cow tile for +3fpt. It then needs 8 turns to grow to size 2 (T123).

As Phase 1 is identical with current missions for all forces involved there is a bit of time to discuss the plan.
We would have to wait for the line of sight into the target anyway to decide on "Go ahead".

mh

[Dreylin]

I like the idea in principle, although clearly a lot depends on how the next turns develop. I do have a question: on the current plan, would Pal be able to see LadyG once she's landed, and along the proposed route?

If so, is there any way to avoid that - maybe by dropping her off at (D2) instead [that would delay her being able to attack until t123, but we may be doing that anyway]

If we can get her in attack position before Pal know about her, this is an excellent plan.

[mostly-harmless]

Yes dropping her at D2 might be an option. Cultural borders give only 1 tile of fog busting, unless its a hill. So by dropping Lady Godiva off at D2 and keeping off the hills, we will be able to attack at T123.

What we need to consider is the diplo ramifications of fighting in PALs backyard.

mh

[Zeviz]

There are two costs missing from analysis at the top:
1. Aborting current scouting missions for two units. (Scouting Imperio's lands before war is a high priority.)
2. Angering PAL by capturing a city in their backyard.

Considering these costs, I don't think a gain of 100$ is worth it. (Keeping the city isn't an option, unless you are sure PAL will not object.)

[mostly-harmless]

1. Aborting current scouting missions for two units. (Scouting Imperio's lands before war is a high priority.)

Correct, that needs to be taken into account, although Sullla is doing a pretty good job with Imperio unit watch.

2. Angering PAL by capturing a city in their backyard.
(Keeping the city isn't an option, unless you are sure PAL will not object.)

If PAL objects we can always sell them the city. I don't think they will go to war over it.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Don't barb cities spawn with defenders of the lowest allowed unit type on the turn? I could be wrong, but I'm sure I've read this before. Some searching of civfanatics didn't come up with anything useful...

[sooooo]

If the barb city spawned recently it will have archers. I think the only reason that saxon had warriors is that those crazy Rabbits neglected to research archery.

[sunrise089]

If it has archers then we may as well forget about it. If it will have warriors I favor the raising option.

Bold dark-horse strategy - If the city is lightly defended, get in position to capture it, and tell PAL the turn before we attack that we plan to raise the city, but will sell it to them instead for a tech or gold.

[T-hawk]

Barb cities get the best defender for which the barbarians have the tech. I'm not 100% sure but I think the barbarians just get any technology that all of the civilizations have. So the new barb city will have archers.

/// CvGame::createBarbarianCities()
GET_PLAYER(BARBARIAN_PLAYER).found(pBestPlot->getX_INLINE(), pBestPlot->getY_INLINE());

/// CvPlayer::found()
if (isBarbarian())
{
eDefenderUnit = pCity->AI_bestUnitAI(UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE);

/// CvCityAI::AI_bestUnitAI()
if (canTrain(eLoopUnit))

/// CvCity::canTrain()
if (!(GET_PLAYER(getOwnerINLINE()).canTrain(eUnit, bContinue, bTestVisible)))

/// CvPlayer::canTrain()
if (!(GET_TEAM(getTeam()).isHasTech((TechTypes)(GC.ge tUnitInfo(eUnit).getPrereqAndTech()))))

Both canTrain() functions do a lot of other checks, like resources, domain (sea units require an adjacent water square), eligibility requirements (missionaries and executives), max unit limits (ditto). None of those checks besides tech should ever apply to basic defenders under UNITAI_CITY_DEFENSE.

[mostly-harmless]

Doh. Stupid website.

[mostly-harmless]

As outlined we don't do anything special for Phase 1. Jennifer will have a look and we will know for sure.

I appreciate the feedback, though.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

Operation cancelled. Two archers as defenders are too much.

mh