The great person thread

[sunrise089]

The religion argument is good, I don't really have a good answer for its reletive value though.

Rego - I think Bureau DOES multiply with the other bonuses though. I thought (unlike Academy, Library, etc) the civic actually multiplied COMMERCE and not BEAKERS.

[Dreylin]

Well here's another idea entirely ... would popping a Golden Age be an absolutely outrageous idea?

If we suspect that Imperio are about to come knocking on our doors, the added production could be vital. By the time the GS appears, we should have grabbed Saxon and so have finished settling all but maybe Bad Ass.

Just throwing it out there.

[T-hawk]

The best time to pop the first Golden Age is when it saves several turns of anarchy. And we have a lot of impending anarchy! Revolts to HR, Bureaucracy, Org Rel, and Islam. That's like getting a raw instant payoff of three turns of our entire civ's production: something like 30 food, 60 hammers, and 90 commerce. Plus the actual GA benefit itself of something like 80 each hammers and commerce. And the GA will replace half of its cost by producing 8 x 6 = 48 extra GPP at Airstrip One with its Great Library. This might be well worth considering.

Yes, Bureaucracy is fully multiplicative with Academy, since B multiplies commerce. 1.5 x 1.5 = 2.25 times as much research as without both.

[Swiss Pauli]

A GA sounds a very interesting alternative to an Academy, given that in the current situation we're looking for maximum short-term benefit with the lowest, long-term opportunity cost.

[mostly-harmless]

What about using the second GSc for the GA?

mh

[mostly-harmless]

What about using the second GSc for the GA?

mh

[Sullla]

But the Golden Age to save Anarchy turns doesn't really line up well for us... Are we willing to wait another 6-7 turns after getting Monarchy to swap to Hereditary Rule? I can't see us possibly waiting even longer there.

Maybe if we can line things up perfectly with Bureaucracy... I don't think it's going to happen though.

[Swiss Pauli]

We clearly want to revolt to HR right away, but it's surely worth measuring the GA benefit against the anarchy from the BUR swap. I assume we would only revolt to Org Rel and Islam if we're in a GA, seeing as the short-term benefits are surely not worth any anarchy.

If we use the 2nd GS for the GA we get diminishing returns from the GPP doubling.

[T-hawk]

Do we need HR right away? Hooking up Wines will already give us +1 happy, and perhaps another if we can trade a second wines for another resource. That would be enough happy headroom for a handful of turns until we do pop the GS.

In more analytical terms, does 7 more turns of HR give us enough production to outweigh one turn of anarchy? My instinct doubts it, since that 7 turns will be spent growing into the Wines happy lift.

[sunrise089]

I think the golden age makes sense. Just figure out when Bureaucracy will be in, and time that for the last turn of the golden age. Then revolt to HR+Organized Religion of GA turn 1, and Islam on GA turn 2.

[Sullla]

I still think a Golden Age is a silly waste of a valuable Great Person. PAL just told us that they will have Civil Service in 5 turns, right? (4 now) We'll be discovering Monarchy in 3 more turns. Wait one turn more, double-revolt to Bureaucracy/Hereditary Rule, and use up only one turn of Anarchy. We really don't need a state religion or Organized Religion at the moment.

Or am I missing something here?

[Dreylin]

Maths

edit: We won't be able to get CS on their turn of discovery, as we still won't have Maths ... and it's looking likely we'll have to research it ourselves.

I'm starting to think that a GA may be the only way we stand a chance of holding off both Imperio and Templars as seems likely....

[mostly-harmless]

You are missing Math as the prerequisite for CS, I think.

mh

[Zeviz]

I also think that connecting wines should give us enough extra happiness to wait until GA for an HR swap. We just have to make sure we have at least 2 workers on the wines tile the turn Monarchy is discovered.

[Sullla]

That still doesn't change the logic though... First everyone is saying it's OK to wait for a Great Person to swap to Hereditary Rule, then the same folks state that we NEED the Golden Age to make a civics swap, because we can't wait the 4-5 turns it will take to research Mathematics. Did I miss something?

Anyway, we don't have to decide what to do immediately either, although I do this it's a great idea to hold this discussion now.