The great person thread

[Zeviz]

This means that if we go with GA, we'll get an academy about 14 turns later. This means we'd still be substantially behind in commerce, but ahead in production. However, our bottleneck is research, rather than production, because most units we'd want to train require HBR and/or Construction. Besides, if we save the GA for later, we'll have more worked tiles for it to act on.

So I still think that Academy would be the best fit for our current needs.

[Swiss Pauli]

Ok, with Banana contact imminent then I think we should reconsider a Philo bulb if (and it's a big IF) we put the following deals in place:

Templars - MC + downpayment on Theo
Banana - Machinery
PAL - see what they'll give us (they're such tech whores they're bound to be interested)
Imperio - if we're really lucky, we might be able to goad them into handing us Currency and another peaceful tech by telling them we're trading Philo to PAL who will therefore get the upper hand on the race to Liberalism. A very long shot, though.

At the very least, I suggest we approach Templars with this proposal as it will also tell us whether MC is off-limits for trade.

[Swiss Pauli]

Ok, with Banana contact imminent then I think we should reconsider a Philo bulb if (and it's a big IF) we put the following deals in place:

Templars - MC + downpayment on Theo
Banana - Machinery
PAL - see what they'll give us (they're such tech whores they're bound to be interested)
Imperio - if we're really lucky, we might be able to goad them into handing us Currency and another peaceful tech by telling them we're trading Philo to PAL who will therefore get the upper hand on the race to Liberalism. A very long shot, though.

At the very least, I suggest we approach Templars with this proposal as it will also tell us whether MC is off-limits for trade.

Should I take the lack of feedback as a lack of interest in this approach?

[Dreylin]

No, I am interested to see what we could get. As I suggested previously, if we could renegotiate the PAL CS deal to include Phil from our side and switch HBR to them, it would help us get to Elephants faster and feel much safer.

e.g. Aesth + Lit(?) + Phil for CS + HBR

[Sullla]

Keep in mind that we'll get a second Great Scientist from the Library about 15 turns after the first one (faster than that if we build National Epic in Airstrip One, which we can and will do!) I don't see any reason why we can't email teams like PAL, Banana, and Templars to say "we're going to lightbulb Philosophy with a Great Scientist, so don't research it" and use the SECOND Great Scientist that way.

I mean, do you really see someone desperately charging ahead to Philsophy tech in the next 15 turns? Yeah, it could happen, but it's unlikely if we tell our trade partners not to go there ahead of time. Imperio's the only other team that could do it, and they won't even trade for Aesthetics, so that seems unlikely too!

I still very, very strongly favor Academy from the first Great Scientist.

[sooooo]

I don't really get why any team would trade valuable techs like machinery for junk like philo. Philo is a completely useless tech, aside for being a pre-requisite for liberalism, which is a mile off. I'm still in favour of an academy.

[Zeviz]

At most we should do what Sulla is suggesting. The current situation should have taught us that we can't expect to trade optional techs for things that have immediate impact. When a team has important military tech, everybody lines up to buy it. If a team has useless tech like Philosophy most others say "we'll talk about buying it when we are actually in a position to use it".

[sunrise089]

@Soooo - So Sullla's plan is still good then, right? Academy with the first GS and then we float the Philo idea and see if anyone bites?

Either way, I still favor Golden Age and then Academy

[mostly-harmless]

I remain with academy first and deal with the 2nd GScientist when it arrives.

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

The concern I have is that if Imperio declares ~T120, and bribes/leans on Templars to close borders then we lose our Ivory and have to fight their maces with cats, axes, HAs, and the odd Jumbo. If we can secure Machinery before war starts then we can spam axes and upgrade them to maces, even if we lose Ivory and have our Copper pillaged.

[Swiss Pauli]

*bump*

The concern I have is that if Imperio declares ~T120, and bribes/leans on Templars to close borders then we lose our Ivory and have to fight their maces with cats, axes, HAs, and the odd Jumbo. If we can secure Machinery before war starts then we can spam axes and upgrade them to maces, even if we lose Ivory and have our Copper pillaged.

Recent events make me think that I Philo for MC and Machinery would really help us out against Imperio. We would only need access to metals on one or two turns to upgrade. Maybe PAL would accept a loss of Copper for 5 turns? Or maybe Banana has spare metal we can trade for? I don't think it would hurt to ask the question to Templars and Banana.

[mostly-harmless]

I think we offered a pretty solid deal with Aesth & Lit vs. MC.
If they don't take, because its arty-peaceful stuff, they are not likely to agree to a Philo vs. MC deal.
ANd don't forget, we have not even met Banana yet.

mh

[Zeviz]

Mh is right. If they don't want Aestetics+Literature, they will not want Philosophy either.

[Dreylin]

OK, back to this thread!

It sounds like we are going to beat Pal/Templars to a GS by a turn or so (if Bananaboy is correct), and we know they are intending to bulb Philo. [It makes sense for both, since Pal could probably use the religion and Templars need the trade bait ... anyway.]

We also expect Imperio to make a (potentially poorly organised) move against us in the near future.

We have 3options currently on the table:

a) Bulb Philo
Pros - denial, trade bait?, Liberalism gateway tech
Cons - questionable trade value, delays building Academy

b) Settle Academy in A1 (*Note I think we have a 1-2t delay moving the GS there from CB)
Pros - long term research
Cons - none specific to this option

c) Golden Age
Pros - ~30% (?) increase in civ-wide production & commerce, accelerates GS2
Cons - short-term use, delays building of Academy

[I've undoubtedly missed a few Pros/Cons, but I can add]

Since we have yet to come to consensus on this issue, we may be in the position of needing a vote?

[mostly-harmless]

mh votes Academy.

mh