Turnplayer Thread #3

[sooooo]

Yes, thinking about it a bit more, it seems a massive advantage to be going first during war turns. This should be a big priority since it cannot be changed and will probably last for a very long time. According to the rabbit/PAL precedent we can still change builds after hitting end turn, but we must have moved all of our units in the first 24 hrs and have hit enter. We should just carry out our actions next turn under the assumption that we are at war even if we are not. If I were Imperio and planning to declare war next turn, I would log on as early as possible, declare war and end the turn. We should probably aim to move units and hit enter as soon as possible when the turn ticks over next turn.

[regoarrarr]

So do we not want to actively end turn, so we know when the turn timer will tick over? Or obviously if everyone else has ended turn (how do we know that?), we can end turn and then make those moves.

Do we have a list of all the moves that we want to make next turn so that we can do it quickly?

Or would we be able to just move most of our units and hit end turn (and then still move backline workers or others not involved), and still retain first-move advantage?

[ruff_hi]

so we know when the turn timer will tick over? Or obviously if everyone else has ended turn (how do we know that?)

We get an email from civstats to our gmail account when a new turn has started.

[sooooo]

It's a tricky one!

Imperio cannot do that. They cannot play move their units last and then immediately declare war next turn and move their units because that's a double-move during war-time. However, we can do that since double moves are allowed during peace-time and technically it would still be peacetime.

The opposing argument is that we should end the turn first as for every turn I can remember we have played and finished the turn before Imperio, so we have a precedent for doing so and can argue that way. I think I would go for this option.

Now it would really get complicated if Templars declare war too ...

[sooooo]

EDIT: Double post.

[Swiss Pauli]

It's a tricky one!

Imperio cannot do that. They cannot play move their units last and then immediately declare war next turn and move their units because that's a double-move during war-time. However, we can do that since double moves are allowed during peace-time and technically it would still be peacetime.

I have to say I'm not sure about that: if they move last when at peace then DoW the following turn with a few seconds on the clock, then I wouldn't guarantee that it is seen as a rule break. We should ask Krill for clarification.

However, the key point is not who moves first, but who is able to land the first (significant) attack. After that, the other team will be playing catch-up (unless the RNG ruins your day). We have to make sure that we're the ones landing the first major blow.

Now it would really get complicated if Templars declare war too ...

This would definitely need Krill to step in to enforce an order of play. I think the fairest way to decide would be that the dogpiler has to play within the same time-frame as the original aggressor.

[sooooo]

I have to say I'm not sure about that: if they move last when at peace then DoW the following turn with a few seconds on the clock, then I wouldn't guarantee that it is seen as a rule break. We should ask Krill for clarification.

What you've just described is a text-book example of a double move. It is clearly not allowed.

However, the key point is not who moves first, but who is able to land the first (significant) attack. After that, the other team will be playing catch-up (unless the RNG ruins your day). We have to make sure that we're the ones landing the first major blow.

It is both. As the stationary team in our own territory, we will always be able to attack first (assuming no double moves). The moving first or second during the turn is a separate issue, and despite being less important, is still important. If we go first we have the option of either attacking or defending with units we build that turn. If we do second we can only defend with those units.

[Swiss Pauli]

Had a quick check in game, and we can only get 58 hammers out of Cape Town this turn, so we're two shy of a 1-turn Jumbo :sad:

Imperio has moved their scouting chariot back north of Cape Town already, so it's a fair bet they'll attack next turn, T130.

[mostly-harmless]

Lets not underestimate IMperio here.
They are not forgetting to hit enter, they just wait to see what we do.
See last turn: With a few hours left on the clock, we hit enter. 30mins later Imperio hits enter, the new turn ticks over, Imperio still logged in.

The next turn tick-over will be crucial. The tile C6 will change hands to us (if not, there is something seriously wrong).
All depends on whether Imperio is aware of it or not. If they are, they will try to be logged in when the turn ticks over (whether by being last to hit enter or wait for the natural turn tick-over), then they can declare and move their stack onto C6. If they are not aware of it, they will assume they have one more turn of peacetime (T130) and might log in later.

I normally follow civstat closely and if I am awake, I will be logged in when the turn ticks over.

Whatever the order of play is, we will be able to attack first, IF the C6 changes hands, because then Imperio spends at least on turn within our borders while at war (being bound to the double move rule).

mh

[Swiss Pauli]

Tile flipping is pretty flaky, mh, but Turn 130 would be a nice, round number to pick if you were co-ordinating an attack with another team...

[sooooo]

If we want to play first this turn and know when the turn ticks over we can ask banana not to hit [end turn] this turn. That way we can just follow the turn tick down, log in as it does so, make our moves and hit enter.

[mostly-harmless]

Had a quick check in game, and we can only get 58 hammers out of Cape Town this turn, so we're two shy of a 1-turn Jumbo :sad:

In that case we should go for a mace.

mh

[sooooo]

We can only build a catapult or a horse archer in one turn or an elephant/mace/pike in 2 turns. That's the main reason I selected catapult for the city when I logged in.

[sunrise089]

Lots of posts.

Making sure we have freedom on action in this war is vitally important. I agree we should move first. Do SP guys know about the CTRL-A command? If you queue up moves with units who don't have an enemy unit next to them at the start of the turn, you can press CTRL-A and the units will preform their movement. This is quicker than any quick-move. Perhaps we should CTRL-A our units this turn (and move them in the first 24 hours to be safe) and then press the keys next turn. We could conceivably hit enter 2-3 seconds into the turn. We can still change builds and research after pressing enter, right?

Big question: Lets say we make our moves in the first ten seconds of the turn. Imperio then moves when? As soon as we press Enter, or after 24 hours? If it's as soon as we press enter can they then move first during the next turn since 24 hours will have passed? Or does one team have to occupy the first 24 hours of moves and the other the second?

@Sooooo - I don't think what Swiss describes is an illegal double move, thought it should be. Peace move -> end turn -> DoW -> war move is only a single move during war time. We should be cautious of this.

[mostly-harmless]

In the end a double move is not really our fear with respect to Imperio, is it? We can see their stack coming. With Templars it's a different matter though.

mh