Turnplayer Thread #3

[sooooo]

Haven't logged on yet, but check out the score!

RealmsBeyond Unknown 669 Offline
gitbliss Egypt 634 Offline
Imperio Russia 632 Online
Templars Inca 445 Offline
Team Banana China 437 Offline
Rabbits Unknown 230 Offline
* PAL Unknown 0 Eliminated

I guess that means we got those hanging gardens

[mostly-harmless]

Hanging Gardens are in!
We are score leader!
A spy failed near Cape Town! (apparently no epts get subtracted when the mission fails!!!, so its only guessing that it was IMperios.)
PAL got Philosophy. I guess we will see the founding of religion event once they logged in.

mh

[Sullla]

Hanging Garden.

Can't wait to get home from work tonight and take a look at the game. Imperio had a failed spy attempt? Glad it failed, but not so glad to see them still showing such resolute hostility.

[Swiss Pauli]

Haven't logged on yet, but check out the score!

RealmsBeyond Unknown 669 Offline
gitbliss Egypt 634 Offline
Imperio Russia 632 Online
Templars Inca 445 Offline
Team Banana China 437 Offline
Rabbits Unknown 230 Offline
* PAL Unknown 0 Eliminated

I guess that means we got those hanging gardens

One thing I've been wondering is why PAL's team name keeps being the turnplayer's name, even after they've finished their turn. Maybe they're exiting to desktop, and not to main menu? Would explain snoop's observation that the game was eating his bandwidth...

[mostly-harmless]

The game seems to always keep the last logged in name. I don't think it resets the team name.

mh

[Sullla]

Off we go for T118, which was a very good turn indeed for our team!

- As mentioned above, we successfully built the Hanging Gardens wonder in Pink Dot, which added a full 10 population to our civ (!) Airstrip One is now size 10, and actually at the happy cap for the moment. I'll go through and break down the new status of each city in a minute. For the moment, just keep in mind that we are nearly even with PAL in population - not to mention almost equal in population to Banana + Templars! Check out these new Demographics:



#1 in overall score, #1 in GNP, #1 in Production, #2 in Food, #2 in Soldiers, #1 in Land Area, #2 in Population. I'm not sure we can pretend to be one of the small civs anymore in our diplomacy messages...

- We will finish research into Construction next turn, while researching at a deficit. We can actually cut science from 100% (200 [265] beakers/turn @ -47gpt) to 90% science (181 [240] beakers/turn @ -34gpt), and I would suggest that we do so, unless there's a binary science reason to keep it at 100% for overflow purposes.

- What are we researching next? There is some talk on this in the Tech Discussion thread, and a tentative consensus to go for Engineering next. With this in mind, I offered one possibility for going forward:

Based on this, it sounds like we should be looking into some variation on the following deals:

- HBR for Compass (Banana, beaker deficit to be made up with...)
- Engineering for Feudalism (Banana, second half of the above trade)
- Construction for Calendar (Banana; we have already pretty much agreed on this)
- Engineering for Philosophy with PAL, possibly with them throwing something cheap in later (?)
- Let Templars and Imperio rot, unless they come up with something better.

If we were to push these trades through, the obvious tech path would be:

Construction (1t) -> Engineering (10t estimate) -> Paper (5t estimate) -> Education (Great Scientist lightbulb, which is due in 13t) -> Liberalism -> Nationalism

While Banana picks up Feudalism and some other good stuff for us. We would then research Guilds -> Gunpowder afterwards, while preparing for an Oromo draft strategy. At least, that's the way I see it.

We have plenty of time this turn to figure this out, but we definitely need to all be on the same page when we do move forward. And we'll need to be in close communication diplomatically with Banana if we're going to do something like the above.

Now for a closer individual look at our (larger!) cities...

- Airstrip One is working on a Forge (5t), currently being held at zero growth. I think we get a better value by running max shields right now, because our options for the final tile to be worked are a plains hill mine (0/4/0) or an unimproved grassland forest (2/1/0). With Bureaucracy we get 4.5 more shields from the first tile, which I think makes it an easy choice. When Bernard finishes another grassland river cottage in 3t, we will swap over to it, for +2 food/turn.

- Pink Dot just finished the Gardens, and is now size 7. I would like to let it grow for a little while; it can run +4 food/turn and 13 shields/turn as constant values, while continuously adding more and more grassland river cottages as it grows. Pretty nice city! Although library or courthouse would be nice builds, we really could use some more military in the event that Imperio goes hostile, so the current build is Horse Archer (4t).

- China Beach is now size 6, unfortunately working two unimproved tile (plains forest and grassland hill forest). We have a worker en route to chop/mine the latter tile, however. China Beach is finishing up an archer for Saxon the Beach (1t, with mucho overflow) and I would like to suggest a lighthouse next, which can be cheaply built in 3t and will improve the city's clams resource.

- Cape Town is now size 5, adding a grassland forest to its normal tile repetoire. It is of course still sitting at zero growth, pumping 17 shields/turn -> 34 shields/turn via Heroic Epic. That gets us any unit in our current arsenal in two turns, pretty nice. Currently we are building maceman (1t, with tons of overflow) and I think the obvious build is a mixture of elephants and cats over the next 10 or so turns.

Our workers also reconnected the copper resource here, and will be free to move out on other jobs. I'd like to have them work on a road from Cape Town to Pink Dot next, for quick reinforcement in the event of danger.

- Something Fishy is size 6, unfortunately having to work an unimproved grassland tile for lack of other options - ugh! There is a worker moving here as we speak to add a cottage on that tile. Something Fishy is building us a settler (6t) for our ninth city, and a whipped lighthouse would make a nice build after that.

- Green Acres is up to size 5, building a worker (3t). I intend this worker for Mellow Yellow when it finishes, as that city needs a LOT of worker attention. Green obviously takes the clam/clam/wine resources for its first three tiles, but for the last two, we have a choice between coastal tiles (2/0/2) and unimproved grassland forests (2/1/0). I chose to work the coastal ones because #1 it doesn't slow down the worker ETA, and #2 we get a much better return on that commerce while running 100% science. Since Green has a library, we get 2.5 beakers in exchange for 1 shield, on each tile, and that's a clear winner IMO. Yay for microing cities!

- Mellow has reached size 3; aside from the clams resource, it's working a grassland forest and forested plains hill tiles. We need a lot of work here, it's just been the low man on the totem pole while building wonders... Anyway, two forest chops and a double-whip will complete forge, after which we can add lighthouse and library in some order, and this city will be rocking along in about 15 turns. Maybe even have a shot at the Colossus, if it's still out there when we finish Forge...

- Saxon the Beach reaches size 2. Not much to speak of here as yet, waiting for worker improvement and forest chops. Fortunately Mustapha Mond is now outside the city, ready to help out.

OK, a word about our workers in the north...



Bernard (blue) is building a cottage at Airstrip One, nothing to debate there. Winston (red) is moving to chop/mine the indicated hill tile at China Beach. Mustapha Mond (yellow) has been requested to chop the marked plains forest tile, *BUT* I think we should have him road the current hill tile first while he's there, to avoid wasting worker actions when moving back there later. I have left Mustapha Mond unmoved to allow for discussion of this, if anyone disagrees.

Now for our workers in the south:



One worker just finished adding a cottage on the white tile southeast of Pink Dot, which the city is already working. Another worker is adding a second grassland river cottage on the orange tile east of the city, and I would like to have the Parsons/Syme worker pair add two more cottages on the "X" tiles as well later. John the Savage is moving to the unimproved grassland tile at Something Fishy, to add a much-needed cottage there.

This unfortunately leaves Mellow Yellow alone for the moment, at least until the Green Acres worker is finished and can come help out. We might want to have Green Acres go ahead and build another worker after the current one, as it can build them fast (5t), Green is already working all of its good tiles, and there's a real demand for more workers. Well, we can reassess in 3t and see what's going on then.

Foreign News

- Imperio tried to sabotage us at the beginning of this turn. But unfortunately for them, they failed and their spy was lost. They'll have to train another one now, ha! If we see an invisible 50 shields unit from Imperio, there won't be much mystery involved.

Imperio is doing nothing but building units in their core cities right now, and yet we're matching them stride for stride in the Power count thanks to Cape Town's Heroic Epic. They're going to seriously damage their infrastructure if they keep this up much longer, as RB and PAL are both getting lots of city improvements up right now. They may feel like they HAVE to attack, as their position in the game is definitely slipping, but you have to wonder, why not Templars? They are much easier prey than us. Let's hope that Imperio does go after Templars, and we can pick a side to intervene with.

- The RBS Discovery got line of sight into PAL's capital this turn, The Warning! (mh, do you know what units were inside? I would like to know for Soldier Count purposes, if possible. Please take a screenshot any time you do the step-in, step-out move.) We can see that they have Granary, Barracks, Lighthouse, Library, and Academy inside; PAL obviously has a similar gameplan to ours. The Great Lighthouse was NOT built in the PAL capital, and is located somewhere else.

OK, I think that's all. We are in very good shape right now, let's try to keep moving in that direction.

[T-hawk]

I'd like to request another worker next at China Beach. +1 food from a lighthouse isn't much. The payback horizon is too long even with the discount: 16 turns to add up to an extra growth and turn back into 30H via the whip. A worker can pay back for itself considerably sooner than 16 turns by chopping and mining. And we need worker labor soon for that silks forest, which will pay back civ-wide.

No city should ever work a bare 2F grassland except to avoid starvation. That's worse than not working the tile at all - the laborer costs maintenance and produces zero beyond his own food. Either whip Something Fishy or hire a specialist.

I'd have Mustapha road first. I almost always road first on hills or forests and never regret it. On a vital transportation link like Saxon's hill, it's a no-brainer.

If Winston is moving from Airstrip One to the hill 2N of China Beach, he can do one turn's worth of work somewhere on the way without losing any time. Options are the plains river 2E of CB, or the bare grassland 1NW of Airstrip One. I think I'd do a cottage on the last.

[sooooo]

Sullla, I'm sure I speak for the team when I say I appreciate your very detailed turn reports and the time you are putting into this game.

Moving to your points ...

I agree that Mustapha should road the tile he is on. The sooner that archer gets to Cape Town the better because the barbarian axeman seems to be heading SE, so Betty will soon have to abandon Saxon to go and chase him.

China Beach ... I think catapult next turn. My issue with lighthouse is that I want to turn the city into a horse archer pump, and for that it would be working production tiles, not coast. Winston should, in my opinion, chop and mine that grass forest. Then make a desert hill mine. We still have a good enough food excess not to use hammers on a lighthouse that would only give us +1 food per turn. My reasoning for catapult is that (a) we need catapults quickly and (b) this is probably the last opportunity for China Beach, being so far away from the action, to build a 1-move unit for a while (assuming Imperio come after us soon).

Your plans for the workers all seem fine. Did your really mean the plains forest outside Saxon and not the tundra forest?

Agree to just grow pink dot while building military. Our workers can presumably lay down improvements to keep up with growth here.

I know we (and I) keep changing our mind about airstrip one, and I'm sure Sullla will be rolling his eyes for suggesting this ... but what does the team think about pumping 2-3 macemen/elephants out of this city before embarking on infra? It would make me sit a little more comfortably for sure. The city is now our second best production city for miltary after Cape Town. If we did go down this route then I'd recommend maceman first to combat that barbarian axeman descending.

[T-hawk]

China Beach: worker worker worker! We are SO hurting for improved tiles over here. I agree with sooooo's plan for Winston, but he's going to take a TON of time for all that - just the grass mine alone is 8 turns. And consider that silks forest - that needs 12 turns! of worker labor to enter, chop, plantation, and road. Who's going to do that?

A catapult is a drop in the military bucket. Think 15 turns from now when that cat would actually reach the front line. Cape Town will have churned out another 10 units by then.

[regoarrarr]

I support Airstrip One building forge at max shields

A worker at Pink Dot can build a cottage every 4 turns, and it is currently set to grow in 5, so we should only need one worker to keep up with a cottage in time for it to grow. That would leave Parsons free. Actually Syme can get a bit further since he's already on the road, and Parsons can move 1N and finish cottaging the tile Syme's on.

And if we're concerned about the chariot possibly doing step-in / step-out moves, we could move our spearman at Pink Dot (Britney's Spears) 1SE.

And we should only need 1 chop and a double whip of the forge @ MY. With 5 base shields (what it's making now), in 6 turns it will be at 30, plus 1 forest chop and a 2-whip would be 120 hammers. It will take Syme 2 turns to get to either the plains forested hill or the grass forest near MY, plus 3 (4?) turns to chop, so that seems pretty close.

I support Mustapha roading his current tile, since it won't make a great deal of difference to the overall development of Saxon, and it does save at least 1 worker turn.

I'm fine with the 2 workers @ Cape Town roading down to Pink Dot but is there any desire to have them chop the forest 1S of Cape Town?

[regoarrarr]

Wow - cross posted * 3

As for which forest to chop near Saxon, my thinking for chopping the plains forest is that at least that can get a farm later on - the tundra, once chopped, is no good for anything. But maybe that's a poor reason in and of itself.

[sooooo]

As for which forest to chop near Saxon, my thinking for chopping the plains forest is that at least that can get a farm later on - the tundra, once chopped, is no good for anything. But maybe that's a poor reason in and of itself.

Well, we could chop the silks forest if we will get calendar soonish (6 to 7 turns). That's probably the best plan. We should chase up banana for their eta on calendar.

[regoarrarr]

Yeah - if Calendar comes in soon that would be a good plan - the reason not to do that is because that (2/1/1) is currently our best tile. 2/0/4 (improved silks) is a good tile but doesn't help our production that much....

[Sullla]

A worker at Pink Dot can build a cottage every 4 turns, and it is currently set to grow in 5, so we should only need one worker to keep up with a cottage in time for it to grow. That would leave Parsons free. Actually Syme can get a bit further since he's already on the road, and Parsons can move 1N and finish cottaging the tile Syme's on.

Except that we're currently working the lake tile at Pink, so we're actually one cottage behind the curve. By using two workers, we can lay down a cottage in 2t (to replace the lake tile), then a third cottage to use when the city grows. That's the logic there.

The calls for worker at China Beach sound pretty convincing. (This is why succession/team games always see such a high level of play.) I'll go ahead and have Mustapha get started on his road the next time I log into the game too.

Any further recommendations for Something Fishy? I agree that the unimproved grassland tile is a horrible one to work, but we slow the settler build by a turn (6t to 7t) by swapping that tile to a scientist specialist. Worth it? We aren't exactly hurting for beakers at the moment. We will have a grassland cottage added there in 4t.

sooooo - I like China as a second-tier military city down the road, but it's too far away to play any real role in the current brewing conflict. As T-Hawk argued, we'll get more value out of infrastructure here in the immediate future.

[Dreylin]

When can we whip Something Fishy, and how long would it take to grow after we do so?