Turnplayer Thread #3

[Sullla]

On that same note, please let me be the first one to log in after the reload, so I can cancel the worker action on the road before it happens. It has to be done immediately, or else the road will be built.

Apologies for the double post.

[Swiss Pauli]

Important note: I moved our new horse archer one tile south of Cape Town, so that Imperio can't see it. I'm going to move all new units out of Cape Town down there, to try and bait them into a foolish attack. At this point, I'm confident we can defend their attack, so I want them to try their luck, get totalled on the counter-attack, and then leave us an opportunity to start grabbing territory with a perfectly legit casus belli.

I think we should discuss this in the T120 Crisis thread. The alternative is to have enough visible force to deter them from attacking altogether, conclude a NAP, then we go after Templar. I'm unsure which I prefer, but I think it warrants discussion.

Bernard (in blue) is easy: he is heading to add another grassland river cottage at Airstrip One on the tile marked with an "X", and will get started next turn. He'll continue adding more cottages there afterwards, and probably finish off the last road connection near Twin Peaks.

Or he could chop then cottage the river forest at A1 to get NE earlier.

Winston (in red) can go to either China Beach or Green Acres, although I think the former can benefit more from his labor. So where do you suggest moving him: chop/mine the grassland hill (marked with an "X"), build a cottage on the grassland tile (marked with a "C"), or do something with one of the plains river tiles? Please let me know!

X marks the spot

Bernard and Winston have already moved, but Mustapha Mond still has not taken an action this turn.

Mustapha camp on the deer. Sorry, it's been a long week.

[regoarrarr]

I simmed Saxon back on Post 641 of this thread

comparing camping the deer first to chopping a plains forest first

Chopping first we are at Size 3, 22/26, and 23 hammers towards our next build (46 if it's a lighthouse)

Camping first we are at Size 3, 19/26 and 25 hammers towards the next build.

3 is better than 2 , right?

[Swiss Pauli]

Wouldn't it be better still to save the chop for Maoi?

[regoarrarr]

We need 240 hammers (60 granary, 30 (60) lighthouse and 150 (300) Moai).

So it really doesn't matter when we chop them. The sim got the best results from getting the granary up sooner, so as to grow faster

[sooooo]

I read your sim but I could not work out if you had factored in that the chop counts double if it is used for the Maoi Statues (doubled for having stone)

[regoarrarr]

But it doesn't matter. Like I said upthread we need 240 hammers (60 granary, 30 (60) lighthouse and 150 (300) Moai).

Let's say for simplicity sake, that we have 1 forest, and Saxon makes 10 per turn, with 0 food (so it will remain the same size for the whole sim)

So with no chops, the granary will take 6 turns, the lighthouse 3 (10 per turn doubled) and Moai 15 (10 per turn doubled for 300 total), for 24 turns total.

If we put a chop into the granary, it will only take 3 turns to get the 30 hammers because 30 will come from the chop. Lighthouse still 3 and Moai still 15, for 21 turns total.

If we instead slow-build the granary, it will take 6 turns, the lighthouse will still take 3 and now that chop is worth 60 hammers, so Moai only needs 240 hammers, which our 10 per turn city (*2) can do in 12 turns. So 6 + 3 + 12 = still 21 turns total.

Ruff showed me this when I was simming the HG.

So, if we assume that we are going granary->lighthouse->moai (or even just granary->Moai), and it doesn't matter in terms of final completion date when we chop, we should chop sooner rather than later, to get Saxon to grow sooner (and thus produce more hammers)

Make sense?

[T-hawk]

Put more simply, it's a fallacy to consider the doubling for timing a chop. The right way to analyze is to consider the buildings at their halved costs. Granary costs 60, lighthouse 30, and Moai 150.

If we're not going to actually work the forest, then the chop should come as early as possible in that building sequence, since that is where it will most speed the rate to the end of the sequence.

Lighthouse and Moai are tied together - either building is not useful until the other is completed, since the city won't want to work any water tiles until they're fully improved at 2-1-2.

That all said, now we have another route to consider. Does it help anything to stick in a Forge before lighthouse+Moai?

[sooooo]

The turn seems to have been reset. I'll wait for Sullla to log in to cancel the worker action.

[Sullla]

Yep, I've logged in and replayed everything from before, including holding off on connecting our second wines. I have offered our only wines to PAL for gems, so there's no possible way the same bug can occur. Once the trade has gone through, we will connect our second wines as before.

Please feel free to log in and take a look at the game. Thanks for waiting.

[Swiss Pauli]

Well that didn't go very well......

...logged in to request Machinery from Banana, and the Diplo screen tells me PAL have accepted the deal. Click exit diplomacy and the deal gets cancelled? Should I have clicked 'Offer trade' to confirm their acceptance? No wonder double trades happen with such a clunky system

I requested Machinery, but I did not re-offer the gems-wines deal.

[Sullla]

Trade of wines for gems has successfully gone through with PAL. I then had our workers connect our second wines, so everything is correct now. Still waiting on Banana to send us Machinery, but I don't think they've even logged into the game since the reload.

Tomorrow being Sunday, I'll have a little free time and punch out some numbers on the game. I'm overdue to do both the normal turn stats for T117 and update the Rival Military thread (I've been keeping it on target, just haven't posted it in a couple of turns).

[Zeviz]

After looking at the game, our lack of workers looks like the biggest obstacle to economic growth right now. Almost every city we have is either working unemproved tiles already, or is about to work unimproved tiles when it grows. And we have almost no cottages anywhere except the capital. My usual rule of thumb is 1 worker per regular city, 2 per jungle city, but we aren't even close to this. And a lot of our workers are needed to build roads or do strategic forest chops instead of improving cities.

So here are some suggestions for the short term. (We can re-evaluate the situation 5 turns from now.)
1. China Beach puts 4 or 5 turn worker ahead of Archer. (There is no need for immediate military, but there is need for immediate worker actions.)
2. Something Fishy replaces Settler with Worker. (We have neither garrison nor workers for Bad Ass, and any filler city will need even more worker attention.)
3. (Longer term) A couple cities should become dedicated Worker/Settler factories, constantly training workers and/or Settlers.

In this game, just like in SGs, focus on individual cities means that it's hard to find time to do empire-wide things like training workers and settlers. Should we make a separate thread for this?

[Swiss Pauli]

We've got 7 workers for 8 cities, so the ratio isn't too bad. The 'problem' (which you also mention) is that we've been using 5/7 workers for special projects at developed cities lately (HG at Pink, emergency actions at Cape Town). Now that these actions are nearly complete, I think we be OK for workers if we alternate China Beach between workers and units over the next dozen turns.

One question I do have though: where should we send the Settler?

[Zeviz]

Considering that for the foreseeable future 2 workers will have to work on road network and another worker on connecting strategic resource, we have only 4 workers available for 8 cities. (The 1-worker per city rule assumes that all workers are actively improving cities.)

If we train a settler in Somthing Fishy, new city would cost us more than it gives until we can build some cottages around it. If we train a worker first, that worker can build a cottage for Something Fishy to work, and then accompany the new Settler to start improving new city right away.

We are close to having too many cities (our slider is already down to about 50% at breakeven), but we aren't even close to having too many workers.