Turnplayer Thread #3

[mostly-harmless]

T117 has started.
As mentioned in the Templars thread, I managed to accept the MC deal (for Aest & HBR) with 1 minute left on T116. In hindsight, that could have waited, as we now have to ship Literature to Templars in T117 and not T118. Ah well, I think getting MC secure was more important.

I took the liberty to check out the barb city with Jennifer, and the Barb city snatch is off the table. Two archers.

I could not recall what we decided as next builds, so I picked some at random at three cities. Sullla, please change.
Now off to write the C&D update.

mh

[mostly-harmless]

All yours, Sullla.
I suggest we hold back Literature to Templars until 1 minute on the clock.

btw. in case Imperio is quick in moving units into the fog, I saw 1HA, 1Elephant & 2Cats in Mutal.
Don't they realise we have an archer there watching their every move?

mh

[Sullla]

T117:

- OK, technically this happened in the final seconds of T116, but I'll still report it here. Templars accepted our trade of Aesthetics/Literature/Horseback Riding for Metal Casting! Yay! One of our great stumbling blocks is now out of the way. We are going to send off an email to Banana and make sure to pick up Machinery from them, which they owe us (we've already sent them all of the techs in the deal). I'm really glad that this trade went through, because next turn we're going to get a gigantic increase in points from Hanging Gardens, and paint a much larger target on our backs. Not to mention, teams are going to see our monster GNP increase very shortly...

- I requested the wines for gems trade we agreed upon with PAL earlier, and they already accepted it! Fast as always, that PAL team. We still have two more wines to connect for trade bait purposes, when our empire is a little less hard-pressed for worker actions.

- Hanging Gardens all set to go. Get this:



OK, now I knew that we were good. But I didn't realize we were quite THIS slick - growing to the next size and perfectly hitting 300 shields on the same turn!

Also, since we are the first team in the game listing, we should be guaranteed Hanging Gardens next turn, even if another team ties us. But I don't think anyone is really racing us, as Krill hasn't come in asking us what our ETA is on the wonder, hehe.

- We built an Academy in Airstrip One with our Great Scientist. This took us from 157 beakers/turn (base) to 189/turn, while running at 100% research. Construction due in TWO turns, start to finish, Airstrip One pulling 110 beakers/turn all by itself!!!



Who's yo daddy now?

- China Beach finished its worker, Mustapha Mond, and has begun Archer (2t) as a garrison unit for Saxon the Beach. After archer is finished, I think we all said that Forge would be a good build to follow, although we might also want to get in a lighthouse (?) Anyway, we can discuss it in two turns.

- Cape Town finished horse archer, has a second horse archer queued up to finish next turn as well. Question for sunrise: if we get Machinery this turn, as looks likely, would you suggest swapping to maceman instead? I'm tentatively leaning towards that, since I forsee Pink and maybe China Beach/Airstrip One building additional horse archers, which can move quickly to the front if needed. We can't move maces nearly as quickly. And I think we'll want Cape Town to build uberphants and cats once we have Construction in two turns. Thoughts?

Important note: I moved our new horse archer one tile south of Cape Town, so that Imperio can't see it. I'm going to move all new units out of Cape Town down there, to try and bait them into a foolish attack. At this point, I'm confident we can defend their attack, so I want them to try their luck, get totalled on the counter-attack, and then leave us an opportunity to start grabbing territory with a perfectly legit casus belli.

- Something Fishy finished courthouse, on settler (7t) for a spot to be determined.

- Worker actions in the north:



Mustapha Mond was just trained in China Beach, and is circled in yellow. What do we want him to do first: mine and road the connecting grassland hill tile (marked with an "R"), chop the silk forest (marked with an "X"), or head right to the deer to connect them (marked with a circle)?

Bernard (in blue) is easy: he is heading to add another grassland river cottage at Airstrip One on the tile marked with an "X", and will get started next turn. He'll continue adding more cottages there afterwards, and probably finish off the last road connection near Twin Peaks.

Winston (in red) can go to either China Beach or Green Acres, although I think the former can benefit more from his labor. So where do you suggest moving him: chop/mine the grassland hill (marked with an "X"), build a cottage on the grassland tile (marked with a "C"), or do something with one of the plains river tiles? Please let me know!

Bernard and Winston have already moved, but Mustapha Mond still has not taken an action this turn.

- Imperio now has two catapults in Mutal; they must have built one in Uxmal last turn, and then a new one in Mutal this turn. I will provide more info on Imperio's military forces after running the stats later on, probably tomorrow.

- We could use a new naming convention for horse archers, if anyone wants to suggest one. If not, I'm going to use horses that won the Triple Crown.

That should be all, at least until I have a chance to run more stats tomorrow. Things are REALLY looking up now everyone!

[Sullla]

Wait, something weird is going on. Somehow PAL has BOTH of our wines, and we have both of their gems. Uh... huh? mostly_harmless, did you also suggest a wines for gems trade with PAL? I appreciate the initiative, but if you're going to do that, please post something!

This is actually a pretty big deal; we CANNOT cancel the deal for 10 turns, and we really will need that happiness next turn in Airstrip One. I suggest for an immediate game pause and reload to the start of the turn, before things go any further. PAL is probably going to want a redo as well, since they also lose a happy face, maybe two in cities with gems.

Thoughts?

[sooooo]

Hmm, Ruff Hi mentioned when talking about another deal that can they just trade some wines back to us? I don't think Krill is that keen on reloading simply because our team made a mistake.

[Krill]

you'd be right...

[sunrise089]

No idea about the resource stuff.

As far as units go, in general it is a good idea to produce HAs in back cities. The issue here is our front has such a weird shape due to the bay and peak that it's hard to position units to cover Pink and Cape Town. I'm fine with a Mace in Cape Town since it's currently our best defender. In general though I'd rather have Jumbos than Maces simply because they promote better (2 promos for anti-melee versus 3 promos for anti-horse) for battles in the open and because they defend better against flanking.

A good general guideline for a flexible main stack might be 1/3 cats, 1/3 horse archers, 1/6 jumbos, and 1/6 maces. That many cats allows the attacker to win essentially every battle if they can hit with full-strength units, while providing enough 2-movers to threaten other cities. Obviously the relative number of cats falls as the stack grows larger...10 is probably enough for most attacks.

The idea to keep our good units in the fog is correct. As long as Imperio cannot one-move us, I think we should place all of our modern units (HA, Jumbo, Cat, Mace) in the fog. Another thought is that while our spears are still viable defenders, we will eventually want to shuffle our spears, axes, and archers to the Pink Dot from to cover against a sneak attack there. That way our backline cities can keep sending units to the Cape front and not have to pause to build their own defenders.

Hmm, Ruff Hi mentioned when talking about another deal that can they just trade some wines back to us? I don't think Krill is that keen on reloading simply because our team made a mistake.

I agree, but are we sure it was our mistake yet?

PS - It isn't like the other teams haven't got about a months worth of delays between them for their own foolishness

[sooooo]

Right, I logged in to look around and cres from PAL spoke to me. We discussed if we could correct the deal and it looks like we can't ... unless ... they suggested we declare war on each other. I said I couldn't do that without the team's say-so.

[sooooo]

An email:

Swiss,

I am in game right now with soooooo wondering if we can declare war and then make peace and redo the deals correctly all in the same turn.

Do you know the anser to this?

-cres

[Zeviz]

Declaring war is not an option because it will mess up our trade routes. (There is a bonus for years of peace.)

EDIT: What if they self-pillage a gem mine? (Or we self-pillage one of the wineries.) It will be a huge waste of worker turns, so I'd prefer if they pillage gems.

[sooooo]

Looks like PAL are screwed more than we are. We can just connect up our third wines. Also gems are worth 2 hapiness with forge so airstrip one can build a forge and be OK. Forge before NE is probably the way to go. Should we change Mellow Yellow to forge too? Mustapha should probably camp the deer since we play to slave in a lighthouse after the granary at Saxon.

[regoarrarr]

I ran a sim (I think I posted it upthread here or maybe in urban planning) and chopping the plains forest before camping the deer came out slightly better. I wouldnt' chop the silk forest until we have better tiles to work (or until we have calendar), as 2-1-1 is one of our best tiles.

[Sullla]

If reloading is not an option, do the declare war/immediate peace thing. We've yet to see any bonus from peace duration with PAL via trade routes, and frankly, it's worth it to get our resources straightened out.

Just as a reminder, here are the current deals with PAL (which would all need to be renewed):

- Open Borders
- Marble for ivory
- Wines for gems

I am strongly in favor the war solution. Anything to sort this out quickly - and both of our teams NEED that happiness.

[regoarrarr]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=159047 explains trade routes


Editing for BTS:
BTS explains it a lot better in that there are 2 components to trade
1.= Base value
Base Vaue is the SMALLER of
Population of Other city/10
AND
Distance to the other City * 15%->40% (Huge->Duel)
but Base Value has a Minimum possible value of 1

2. Modifiers, these are all +% and are added together and then the total is used to modify the base value.
Then the Base Values have % modifiers added, the % modifiers are
+5% for population of the Receiving city over 10
+25% if the receiving city has a connection to the Capital
+3% per turn since your last war with the civ (if it is another civ) [max 150%]
+50% if you have a Harbor
+100% for the ToArtemis
+100% if the other city is on another continent
+100% if it is another civ on another continent AND you have a Customs House

I'm not sure when that might affect us, but the good news is that it will reset itself after 50 turns. I still am not sure if I am in favor or not. Can we ask for a reload? Heaven knows we deserve it after all the Pal / Rabbits reloading shenanigans.

[regoarrarr]

On another note - 1-3 of the workers near PD should cottage the tile SE of Pink Dot. It already has at least 1 turn of cottaging on it (from before we started operation HG), so we should be able to get a cottage up next turn (in time to use it with the HG population)

Also, shouldn't we put a spearman or 2 guarding our workers doing the mine near Cape Town?