Turnplayer Thread #3

[ruff_hi]

I am not suggesting running science from now until Great Library. Only for a few turns at the end of the research. I've put together a plan for a 1 turn Great Library build. It requires 3 turns of building science just before we discover literature. Please see the Great Library thread for details.

[T-hawk]

I strongly prefer cottages over scientists at A1. We don't need to eke out pennies of GPP or beakers with scientists. The Great Library itself will generate plenty of GPP for free without trading off working other tiles, and a beaker or two of scientist production over cottages won't make the difference in landing the GL.

I do like Ruff's plan of building Research to buffer forest chops. Yes, the marble modifier gets applied to buffered chops once we actually start the GL. Since we'll need to start that about 6 turns from now, let's have A1 aim to finish something (with big overflow) in 6 turns. Worker will take too long; I'm in favor of military now. Depending on the timing, either archer or a 35-hammer unit (axeman) might be better.

[Sullla]

Alright, here's what we're going to try:

- Airstrip One builds worker currently (7t), swapping to a major shield overrun on the last turn, a la Ruff's Great Library plan. The new worker can help cash in the pre-chops after it is produced.

- Airstrip One will finish the worker roughly 3 turns before we have Literature, after which it will build Research, as per the plan. This will allow the forest chops to apply to the Great Library.

- Bernard, the new worker this turn, will start pre-chopping rather than build roads towards Twin Peaks/Cape Town. This is because we expect to start cashing in the pre-chops in as little as 7 turns, and need to have 5 of them in place then. We only have 2 done currently!

Please do not reshuffle tiles at the capital! Every time I log in, someone has moved something around. That's fine when we're planning, not so good when we're in the middle of something.

Ruff's Great Library plan, cut and pasted from that thread:

Here is how we build the Great Library in 1 turn ...

This will require some set up, but it is possible. For this example, I am aiming to build the Great Library on Turn x. I am assuming that we have 2 workers available at A1 and that we have mathematics.

Turn x-3
A1 is building something that is 1 hammer short
A1 is configured to max hammers (16 at -2 food)

Turn x-2
A1 completes something, 15 hammers into overflow
A1 builds science (configuration unimportant)
2 forest chops (60 hammers)

Turn x-1
A1 builds science (configuration unimportant)
2 forest chops (60 hammers)

Turn x
We finish researching Literature (ie this is the first turn that the Great Library is available)
1 forest chops (60 hammers) <- this could even be a 7 turn mine on the forest plains hill
A1 configured to max hammers (17 at -2 food assuming we mined the plains hill)
Hammers into the Great Library ...
15 from overflow from turn x-2
150 from 5 forest chops
17 from current production
182 x 2 = 364
Great Library in 1 turn!

Note that we need to pick up Mathematics at some point for this to work correctly...

Edited by Ruff because he realized the last chop could be on Turn x

[regoarrarr]

Originally posted by Sullla
Note that we need to pick up Mathematics at some point for this to work correctly...

At some point before turn x-2 to be precise. Well, I guess that's not precise either - how about... to be a little less vague?

EDIT: and now I'm editing because ruff's edit made my post inaccurate too

[ruff_hi]

Guys - I updated Sullla's cut and paste because I realized that the last chop doesn't have to occur on x-1, it can occur on Turn x.

My main concern is that I think it will take us 13 turns to get to literature. 4 for Aeth, 6 for Lit and 3 to get the gold to remain at 100% science.

[regoarrarr]

Also @Sullla - in your turn report posts can you post the total number of beakers we have towards our current tech (and its cost).

Something like

Tech:
Aesthetics (4t) 200 / 434
100% research (53 [64] beakers/turn) @ -17gpt

Requested additions in bold

Helpful to those of us without BtS (but I am getting it for Christmas - sometimes it's good to be the dad!!! )

[regoarrarr]

So our marble city will be founded in 4 turns (T96) - 1 to build, 1 to move on red line, 1 to move on yellow line, one to settle. It looks like the workboat will get there the very next turn (2 turns to be built, 2 to move to the clams, 1 to net).

That leaves 1 workboat needed for marble city and one for yellow dot (clams / dyes). I propose one more built at China Beach (working the cattle / fp cottage / clams / forest, which is +5fpt and 6 hpt) for 5 turns and then swaps over to 2 scientists (working the fp cottage and cattle for 4hpt and even food) to generate a scientist.

The work boat for yellow dot can be whipped out at marbleville. With 2 clams it will have insane food anyways. I'd even consider having CB build something else (military?) and have marble build its own 2nd work boat first. It will have +4 food which means it can whip another workboat in 6 turns after being founded.

The earlier we get a GS the better IMO

[Sullla]

Big turn update coming shortly: PAL and Imperio exchange Code of Laws/Math, and PAL declares war on Rabbits! Will have the turn report up in about an hour.

[Sullla]

Here were the highlights of T93:

- We'll start with international news, because the domestic stuff was of secondary importance. First, PAL and Imperio made the expected swap of technologies: PAL sends Code of Laws to Imperio for Mathematics. PAL continues to use their middleman position to stay tied for tech leadership, even though their GNP is middling at best. Imperio then settled a fifth city, Mayapan, on their turn. Based on the fact that we know the settler came out of Lakamha, and it settled only one turn after its creation, we can be fairly sure that the city went to grab the double crabs spot NE of Lakamha.

- More seriously, however, is this news: PAL is at war with Rabbits!



Now technically we can't tell just from this info who was the one declaring war. But keep these facts in mind:

- PAL has been doing some crazy whipping of "something" that has been increasing their Power rating steadily.

- PAL's Soldier count stands at 130k, #1 in the world by a large margin. (We are #2 at 96k.)

- Whiplash is a vicious MP pro, while Rabbits are a group of role-playing pacifists.

I'd say the writing is on the wall here. PAL has been using OUR horses to whip a bunch of War Chariots to crush Rabbits. Unless the Rabbits can pull a miracle out of their hats, they're probably finished. At the very least, we need to send some kind of diplomatic protest to PAL. What was all that about needing horses to fight off barbarians? Pure bull! They wanted horses to attack their neighbor!

The ONLY way this could turn out good for us is if PAL gets dragged into a long, unproductive war where neither side makes gains. But PAL has 8 cities to Rabbits 4, and they wouldn't have attacked unless they felt sure of winning. I can't see this ending well...

- Domestically, we had better news to report. Pink Dot and Something Fishy both expanded borders, giving us a huge new line of sight in the south:



Any "south" the Templars were hoping to get is simply gone! Remember in the early game, when we were debating over whether to go for Pink Dot's location? We said at the time that possession was 9/10 of the law, and that certainly has proved to be true!

- Pink finished its settler, and has started another. The current settler will found on the marble in two turns, on T95.

- Barb update in the north. The barb axeman moved in an unexpected direction:



Hopefully, the barb will simply suicide against Betty Hur on the interturn. If not, Betty will continue to shadow the axeman, and wait for a chance to attack on flat ground. We are protected even if the barb moves SW, to threaten the new settler (in that case, Betty moves SW-SW in response). Everything should be OK here.

- I haven't attacked at Saxon yet, I want to run a quick sim in the Worldbuilder first to try and determine what tile that barb city is working. Will get back to this later on.

- Cape Town finished an axe, and started another (3t). I'm planning to move this axe to the Pink Dot region, where we are very weak at the moment on military. Future Cape Town military units will stay in the north, to prepare for the upcoming Twin Peaks/Bad Ass city.

A note on naming conventions: I'm going to name all our axewomen after female characters from the Diablo universe. Thus our first one is Adria. Look forward to seeing more familiar faces as we build more axes!

That should be all. Best we can do now is cross our fingers and pray for Rabbits to have some military success! Data post to follow this one shortly.

[Swiss Pauli]

Hmmmm...I don't suppose we can pillage our own horses can we? I think we should ask to have them back as they've had them for a few turns already.

[sooooo]

Oh dear, I feared PAL would do something like this. Not only are they on a continent designed for 4 civs, but they are reducing it to themselves and a non-playing team. Since it's only prince difficulty, maintenence shouldn't be a problem for them either. D'oh.

Originally posted by Sullla
Hopefully, the barb will simply suicide against Betty Hur on the interturn. If not, Betty will continue to shadow the axeman, and wait for a chance to attack on flat ground. We are protected even if the barb moves SW, to threaten the new settler (in that case, Betty moves SW-SW in response). Everything should be OK here.

Eek, chariots only get a bonus vs axes when attacking, not defending. Does Betty have any movement points left?

[Sullla]

Here was the data from T93:

General

Active Turn Player:
Sullla

Status:
Played

Tech:
Aesthetics (3t)
100% research (52 [63] beakers/turn) @ -17gpt
255/429 beakers overall

Gold
73g in treasury

Cities

Airstrip One [guarded by Xena]:
Worker (6t)
Emphasizing commerce and research

Pink Dot [guarded by Britney's Spears]:
Settler (7t)
Intended for protected "yellow" spot

China Beach [guarded by Ms Piggy]:
Work Boat (1t) for to-be-founded city
Anger duration for 1t, city grows in 1t

Cape Town [guarded by Diana and Billy Jean Tell]:
Axeman (3t)

Something Fishy [guarded by Svava]:
Granary (51t)
Growing like a weed working the fish tile

Non-Combat Units

Scout [Sharon]:
Conducting the "Grand Tour"
Will board galley next turn to head overseas

Worker [Winston]:
Prechopping forest tiles at Airstrip One
Current tile (moved onto forest)

Worker [O'Brien]:
Building road connection to future Twin Peaks
Current tile (done!)
Going to mine plains hill N of Cape Town next

Worker [Parsons]:
Roading marble at Something Fishy (done!)

Worker [Syme]:
Roading marble at Something Fishy (done!)

Worker [Bernard]:
Prechopping forest tiles at Airstrip One
Current tile (moved onto forest)

Settler:
Moving to western marble tile (2t)

Military Units

Galley [RBS Discovery]:
Heading to the eastern continent (1t)

Axeman [Adria]:
Moving to Pink Dot region

Spearman [Britney's Spears]:
Guard Pink Dot

Chariot [Betty Hur]:
Moving to intercept barb axeman
8XP - need 2 more!

Chariot [Lady Godiva]:
Preparing to attack barb city of Saxon

Archer [Ms Piggy]:
Guard China Beach

Archer [Diana]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Billy Jean Tell]:
Guard Cape Town

Archer [Robyn Hood]:
Moving to guard new marble city

Archer [Svava]:
Guard Something Fishy

Warrior [Xena]:
Guard Airstrip One

Warrior [Jennifer]:
Moving to the eastern continent on board the RBS Discovery

Foreign Builds from C&D

Templars
Jerusalem = (334 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 575) = 48 shields (+16)
Jericho = (66 * (148 + 100)) / (3 * 550) = 10 shields (+2)

Think it's pretty clear Templars are building a settler or worker in Jerusalem. Also, Jericho swapped off the oasis tile to one with an extra shield (grassland forest?), so expect it to grow to size 2 soon.

Imperio
Mutal = (292 * (116 + 100)) / (3 * 501) = 42 shields (+9)
Lakamha = (214 * (116 + 100)) / (3 * 514) = 30 shields (+13)
Chichen Itza = (325 * (116 + 100)) / (3 * 488) = 48 shields (+6)
Uxmal = (7 * (116 + 100)) / (3 * 527) = 1 shield (+1)

I think Chichen Itza is building a worker, because otherwise I can't see how the city gets to 6 shields/turn. The city already has a granary.

[Sullla]

Originally posted by sooooo
Eek, chariots only get a bonus vs axes when attacking, not defending. Does Betty have any movement points left?

Really?! I had no idea... I guess I haven't played enough Beyond the Sword.

Damnation. This is really bad. I've probably just screwed us over royally...

EDIT: OK, we have 69% odds to win, according to my test in the Worldbuilder. That's infinitely worse than the 95%+ odds we get attacking, but not as bad as I thought. We've just got to hope we get lucky on the interturn...

[sooooo]

I think we shouldn't attack at Saxon - wait until we see if Betty Hur dies. If she does, then Lady Godiva can come south to intercept the axeman.

[mostly-harmless]

An PAL whipped two more cities down one pop point this turn again.
There whole empire must be very angry size 1 cities.

mh