Tech Discussion

[sooooo]

Also agree with Swiss Pauli.

[Swiss Pauli]

I must say I was very impressed with our tech haul from the first round of trades, so much so that I've been idly wondering whether we can use No Tech Brokering to our advantage by taking a 'left-field' approach to our research by learning the less obvious techs and then trading them with the pack?

Is this an idea worth considering in more detail? Or just idle frippery?

[regoarrarr]

I think that SP's suggestion is a good one, and we do need to start figuring out where we're heading after Monarchy. I think that our team was very well served by having a medium-term tech plan (going for Monarchy) many turns ago. As that is now moved to the short-term, it's time to start thinking about where we're heading next.

In the next 10-12 turns or so, we will be picking up Priesthood, Monotheism, Monarchy and Code of Laws.

Here are a few options of where to go next:

Option A: The bottom of the tree, Metal Casting / Compass / Machinery / Optics. Advantages: Techs like these (Compass especially) are not often researched and might serve as good trading fodder (at least in SP). Disadvantages: We have no forge happiness resources and are not likely to be players for the Colossus. Also with our capital not being coastal, a harbor is not quite as useful (though we do have 2 coastal cities, at least for now).

Option B: The middle: Math / Construction / Currency / Calendar. Advantages: We have 4 silk resources that we could hook up and trade. Math is always nice, and Currency too. Disadvantages: It's likely that this path is going to be used by the other teams - especially those with Ivory for the uberphants.

Option C: The top: Aesthetics / Literature / Drama / Music. Advantages: Cheap Theaters and 4 dye resources. The Great Library (with marble). We could likely be first to Music if we wanted to and that's a tech that is likely to be extremely un-researched (though I'm not sure how it would do as trading fodder).

I know that awhile back we had talked about Option C and to me it still does appear to be the strongest option. But let's talk about it and decide, so we can make sure that we're doing the things that will make it happen (like pre-chopping enough forests for the GL and making sure to settle the Marble city in time, etc).

If we can agree on a medium-term focus, I can run some projections and figure out our timelines.

[Sullla]

Good idea for discussion. Nothing's going to happen for another day (as we wait for other teams to play their turns) so it's an opportune time to discuss this.

I was thinking along the same lines as Swiss Pauli earlier. The key to our first round of tech brokering was Sailing tech, odd as it might sound. No one else was interested in research it, yet everyone knew that they would need it eventually, so we managed to trade it three different times for a 300% return on investment! Identifying future techs like that could be a powerful strategy, especially if we can guess or figure out the paths that the other teams are likely to take.

Out of the paths listed by regoarrarr, I think a mixture of B and C would be the best option. We're simply not in a good position to take advantage of the goodies at the bottom of the tree at the moment. (However - I would like us to emphasize them in the longer term future. We should make a major effort to be the first to Optics and gain the circumnavigation bonus.)

Ideally, in the post-Monarchy future we would research Aesthetics and Literature to build the Great Library, then follow that up or trade for the four "B" techs: Mathematics, Construction, Currency, Calendar. Perhaps we could sound out PAL on an Aesthetics/Mathematics exchange? I believe they have the same cost in beakers. I imagine whiplash will probably be heading for Construction anyway.

I'd prioritize our most desired techs something along these lines:

- Monarchy (immediately +2 happy in every city, desperately needed)
- Literature (Great Library cements us as one of the research leaders)
- Calendar (secures us another 3 happy faces, allows us to continue growing)
- Currency (yes, we would like more trade routes!)
- Drama (cheap theatres and +1 happy with dyes)
- Compass (harbors are nice)

There's also one final option regoarrarr didn't list that we might consider: beeline to Civil Service. However, I actually think it might be better to let another team do that, and try to trade for the tech. Let me explain: with "No Tech Brokering", it's better to research a lot of cheap techs yourself, and let other teams research the one big expensive tech. Since you cannot re-trade techs, haing three inexpensive techs to make deals puts you in a superior position to having one massive one. Look at PAL in the last round of trades: they got less than we did because they only had one trade chit, Alphabet, and they didn't WANT to trade such an expensive tech to teams who couldn't cough up full value. By having three cheap techs on our side (Sailing, Archery, Iron Working) we could make lots of inexpensive deals to fill out the tree. Thus, I'd rather let PAL go for Civil Service and pick up, say, Currency + Calendar + Drama (or something like that) than vice versa.

Did that make sense? I'm assuming that PAL and RB will be the two research leaders for the immediate future - and our teams should continue to work to keep it that way.

[regoarrarr]

Sullla - would you have some time today or soon to run a few WB tech tests?

1. What is our pre-req bonus for researching Monotheism with Polytheism and Masonry?

2. What is our pre-req bonus for researching Monarchy with Monotheism and Priesthood?

And do we have 3 calendar resources? I only saw silk in the screenshots. Or did you mean that we could then trade for the other ones?

[Sullla]

We also have dyes at Pink Dot. I was thinking +1 silks, +1 dyes, and +1 from dyes with uber-cheap Creative theatres. I guess that wasn't clear.

Not sure if I'll have time to run Worldbuilder tests, maybe.

[regoarrarr]

Okay - the Dyes and theater come with Drama not Calendar - that was where I was confused.

Oooh ooh you KNOW you want to run some worldbuilder tests :-D

[Swiss Pauli]

I don't think path C will be so unpopular: if Templars are going for a CV the they are surely targeting Sistene, and therefore Music (and Southern Marble - but that's for another thread!). I can see any team contemplating a CV wanting to bag Music early.

I think the cheap tech strategy is a very good idea indeed

And we should also be prepared to make generous terms with PAL's neighbours, and squeeze as much as we can out of the other three.

[mostly-harmless]

Keep in mind that we are up against 3 industrial civs here for the race to GreatLib. That includes PAL. I am not sure it is wise to advertise we are going for it by sounding them out on an Aesthetics vs. Math trade. Or am I too paranoid?

I would also point out that we should try to get our discount buildings into play as soon as feasible. That is one of our big advantages.

mh

[Zeviz]

The biggest risk with Option C is that somebody might beat us to the Great Library. However, that risk can be decreased if we have enough pre-chops to have Great Library built 4 turns after discovering the tech. This leaves the question: Will other teams want to buy these techs when the wonders are gone? Sure, we can promise them that WE haven't started work on any wonder other than GL. However, that still leaves other competitors.

In the end, I like option C best, because nobody will sell us wonder techs unless we research them ourselves. (At least not early enough to make a play for GL.)

[Sullla]

Definitely a concern, mh. I actually wasn't thinking about PAL being Industrious. What we can do is watch their resources carefully. Ideally, we would connect marble at the same time that we discovered Literature (surprise! he he) If PAL does not have marble, and we properly prepare Airstrip One with pre-chops, it's literally impossible for them to beat us to the wonder. Unless they get a Great Engineer.

This may all be moot if one of the teams beelines to Literature immediately after getting Writing, which is a real possibility.

[Swiss Pauli]

Originally posted by Zeviz
This leaves the question: Will other teams want to buy these techs when the wonders are gone?

I'm sure people will want the techs as they're all pre-reqs for other, not-too-distant techs.

We might even be able to bump up the price of something like Aesthetics because of the Wonders it opens up for teams whom we know have the multiplier.

As for techs to avoid, Theology and Divine Right are the obvious ones. HBR may be one to trade in if we don't feel threatened. Do any others spring to mind?

[sunrise089]

Funny stuff Swiss - in the MP game's in used to playing, the three techs you named are very high-priority.

While I won't go into by prefered tech path too much (probably unpopular to beeline for knights), I will mention that an artist bomb in Pink Peaks will probably be fantastic for letting us see incoming attacks and giving us good road access for attacks of our own.

[regoarrarr]

With Imperio having researched Monarchy, does it make sense to see if they would be interested in trading that for something that we're about to research?

We could shift on to either Lit / Drama / Music or HBR and trade some combination of that to Imperio.

I don't know if arranging an HBR - Monarchy trade makes sense since I don't know if that woudl tip them off (and potentially Templars) of Templar's impending doom?

It just doesn't seem to make sense to research Monarchy if we can trade for it

[mostly-harmless]

Well, we have a commitment to PAL to trade Monarchy for CoL.

mh