Turnplayer Thread #2.

[mostly-harmless]

Keep in mind that tech brokering is turned off, so that will limit our options somewhat.

A question:
Once we have Alphabet, rivals can see our researched techs (to some extent) via the diplo screen, right, even if they do not know Alphabet themselves?

mh

[Sullla]

Originally posted by regoarrarr
Might we able to tech-trade with a civ or two once we get Alphabet for some of the religious branch? Again, we can decide for sure once we get a bit closer, but if we run all cash after we discover IW, then we can trade for some of the religious line and go all science on Monarchy

This is starting to sound like a real plan. I think we'd have a good chance to trade something to Templars for some of their religious tech. Maybe Fishing and Sailing for Mysticism and Polytheism, something like that (?) Since it will take a little while to arrange a deal, we could stock up gold during the inevitable negotiations.

[sooooo]

Originally posted by mostly-harmless
A question:
Once we have Alphabet, rivals can see our researched techs (to some extent) via the diplo screen, right, even if they do not know Alphabet themselves?
mh

Yes, and they'll also reallise that they cannot trade for our alphabet, so that we must have got it from another team.

[Sullla]

Update for T67:

- China Beach finished its work boat, and the citizens are enjoying a healthy diet of clams. Two turns until it grows to size 2 and whips out the second work boat.

- Pink Dot grew to size 3 and completed an archer. For the moment, she will stay to defend the city. Pink is building a replacement worker to finish improving its hills (5t).

- The great convoy heading to the Cape moved further east with no incident. Five tiles away now, and Imperio still hasn't spotted us. By the time their holkan actually does see us, it will be too late to do anything about it.

- Winston has started chopping the grassland forest at the capital. Since it was the same length of time to chop then cottage (as opposed to the dual command), he's working on the chop first, to get the granary done sooner.

- Our research went up by two points, to 22/turn, thanks to working the clams at China Beach. Unfortunately, our costs went up by one as well, due to having six units outside our borders (supply). We are currently at -5gpt at 100% science.

- PAL runaway alert: after getting two more pop increases last turn, PAL's demographics now show them producing 46 food and 16 shields. In comparison, we're producing 29 food and 14 shields. And we're doing better than Imperio and Templars! Their explosive start has them a head about the rest of the pack.

- Templars built another quechua last turn, #7 overall. Why they haven't built any spears or axes with their bronze, or chariots with their horses - I have no idea.

That's all for this turn. Now let the discussion and planning begin.

[sunrise089]

I hope Krill posts the immediate reaction posts from Templars and Imperio after they spotted Pink Dot and Cape Copper respectively.

[mostly-harmless]

A little correction from the C&D department. A bigger update will be posted there shortly.
Templars did not build another Quecha.
Their increase in soldier points from T65->T66 is indeed accounted for by researching Hunting, as Sullla already guessed. In the current turn (T67) Jerusalem finished a barracks. That might be the reason why we have not seen axes and chariots, yet.

mh

mh

[Sullla]

Update for T68:

- We have finished researching Sailing! More on research in a minute. We also got a ton of "score points" this turn, since it's now been 20 turns since Pink Dot expanded its second ring.

- The Cape Copper convoy advanced another tile successfully, and has not been spotted as yet. (Imperio's holkan will not see us until next turn.) Four tiles to go, and the settler may [read: almost certainly will] be able to scamper ahead and cut that down to three turns.

- Parsons has begun the cattle pasture at China Beach, which will take 4 turns. China Beach will grow to size 2 and be whipped next turn.

- C&D question for mostly_harmless: Templars' Power rating went up by 7000 last turn, which seems odd. Do you think that means a barracks and chariot completed the same turn? An axe (6000) plus population increase (1000) would be so much more logical - but there was no population increase. I can never figure this team out...

- OK, time to play "what's the most efficient way to research Iron Working?" We have 5 gold in the bank, and are currently losing 5gpt at 100% research. We have 63 beakers invested in Iron Working, and need 286 beakers to complete it (223 remaining). Options include:

100% research: -5gpt @ 22 beakers/turn (TRUE research = 27 beakers/turn)
90% research: -3gpt @ 19/turn (TRUE: 24/turn)
80% research: -1gpt @ 17/turn (TRUE: 21/turn)
70% research: +1gpt @ 15/turn (TRUE: 19/turn)
60% research: +3gpt @ 13/turn (TRUE: 16/turn)
50% research: +6gpt @ 11/turn (TRUE: 14/turn)
0% research: +17gpt @ 0/turn (TRUE: 1/turn)

It looks like the results are pretty similar between binary science (3 turns at 0%, followed by 8 turns at 100%) and simply running break-even science (11 turns at 70%). Can someone run the numbers and find the optimal solution?

Keep in mind these numbers will all change when we found Cape Copper!

[regoarrarr]

Well, I didn't want to spend a whole lot of time on it since it will all be moot once we find CC

But the fastest I could do it was in 11 turns. The max of (beakers+gold) I could get out of those turns was 236, including the 5 gold we have already

2 turns of 0: 34 gold, 2 beakers
6 turns of 100: -30 gold, 162 beakers
3 turns of 90: -9 gold, 72 beakers

This puts us at 236 beakers and 0 in the treasury. Obviously we can tweak it as we get down to the end and work between 90 and 100.

Anyone want to WB up an experiment to see what our maintenance will be with CC?

Also, another thing to consider is when will some of our cottages at the capital mature?

[Sullla]

Neat! But I'm not sure finishing the tech with exactly 0 gold left in the bank is our goal either.

The cottages finished one turn apart; I think we have 7 and 8 turns until they turn into hamlets, respectively.

[sunrise089]

I advise running zero science until Cape Copper is founded. I have 4 reasons:

1) It's likely running zero science for three turns will be needed to then run 100% through Iron Working once we found the Cape.

2) It errs on the side of leaving some gold in the back for an event.

3) It gives us maximum flexibility by letting us wait for more economic information post-founding to decide our long-term rate.

4) It gives us more cash on hand up front - which besides events can form the basis for an emergency warrior upgrade as soon as we get our copper hooked.

The only downside is it may delay Iron Working by 1 turn if Cape Copper doesn't lower our break-even point. I consider this unlikely and well worth the risk.

[Sullla]

That's probably the best course. Unless I hear a compelling math-based argument before the next turn, we're going with 0% science for a little while.

In other news, Imperio moved their holkan away from the coast:



This is good news, as we MAY be able to slip the settler convoy past without being seen. It depends on what direction the holkan moves next turn; if it moves S or SE, we'll be in the clear!

Note that we will reach the Cape and found our city on T72. Considering that we whipped the thing on T63, we've done a pretty darn good job thus far.

[Zeviz]

I agree with Sunrize's arguments for 3 turns of gold collection.

[ruff_hi]

Originally posted by Sullla
- Winston has started chopping the grassland forest at the capital. Since it was the same length of time to chop then cottage (as opposed to the dual command), he's working on the chop first, to get the granary done sooner.

I don't think putting the chop into the granary is such a great move. The capital will grow to happy cap next growth, so we will not get much from the granary until we are able to grow again. That is, unless we want to whip which we decided wasn't a smart move with this food-poor capital.

As such, I think we should put the chop into a worker - you can never have enough workers in the early game.

[Sullla]

It's not about chopping a granary, Ruff - it's about building a cottage, on a grassland river tile that happens to have a forest on it. We don't really have a choice in the matter, as the forest has to come down. Chopping the forest first, then building the cottage is slightly more efficient than doing them both in one task, so that's what I did.

We will shortly have four workers for four cities, none of which can get above size 5 at the moment. I really don't think we need more workers than that.

[ruff_hi]

I don't have an issue with chop then cottage. I'm just thinking that we could put those hammers to better use than a granary. Ideally, I would love to put them into a Galley but that is impossible.

What other build options do we have?