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  • email from banana on Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:16 AM

    Team Realms Beyond,

    How are things holding up on the war front, friends? And how soon before Imperio engages? I see that your Open Borders agreement has "expired," so it looks like to me like something will go down soon.

    I haven't heard from your team in awhile, and have determined that it is either because (a) you are understandably preoccupied or (b) you are understandably displeased about our recent resource trades with Imperio. So let me explain our intentions, and how they relate to matters on both of our continents.

    1. I have mentioned earlier how our resource trades with Imperio have been necessary for us to foster growth. I'll explain more about that shortly. In the meantime, it's important to note that both trades have been happiness for health trades. Part of my thinking was that if these deals were ever cancelled, it would be more crippling to Imperio to lose 4 happiness per city than for us to lose a mere 4 food per turn once our cities maxed out. (I can deal with a bit of unsightly smog --- after all, we are China!)

    2. Our team has 34 turns left in a 60-turn NAP with PAL. This is important to note because it has allowed us to run with a pretty small military, which is the primary reason why we haven't already plegded more assistance to you in your time of need. More importantly from a long-term perspective, it has allowed PAL to do the same thing and they are sending their economy through the roof by building nothing but Cottages throughout their grassy landscape.

    3. Which leads me to my next point: PAL discovers Education next turn. They were just at 6 turns, so they must have lightbulbed it. This means they are a shoe-in for Liberalism and the free tech that comes with it (they would then be able to implement Free Speech to enhance their quickly emerging Towns). It also means that they can discover most techs of that level in 6-7 turns, giving them an insurmountable tech lead. I'll keep you posted on the details here, but know that this is the reason why we are placing such a premium on domestic matters and growth at the moment --- with your continent about to be engaged in war, we are possibly the only team that can even keep (fading) stride with their progress.

    4. I don't know what is going on with PAL's war with the Rabbits, but the Rabbits have built 2 new cities recently. I have been meaning to contact PAL about this but have not gotten the chance yet. It seems *strange* to me.

    5. Regarding our progress, we will discover Guilds in 10 turns. However, we have a Great Someone due in 3 turns, and our percentages are 52 Engineer / 41 Scientist / 7 Prophet. With only one turn invested in Guilds, I may be willing to lightbulb it in lieu of what I had planned for it (I have been agonizing over its use for over a week now!). If I do that, I'd like to go for Paper in the meantime so we could trade maps.. Our course, we would have to regain your trust for you to consider that. And of course, you would get Guilds immediately --- we can work out the details at that time. There is also a risk that we'd get a Scientist instead, so take that into consideration as well. Please let me know before the end of this turn if possible.

    6. We have a Galley that is beginning to unveil the western coastline of your enemies, and I know the locations of one city for each. The Templar holy city of Acre is currently sitting undefended and reachable in one turn by Galley for us from our newest city. However, our city is not yet connected to the mainland by road. Plus, our Galley is already on the move, though I am considering doubling it back for a little surprise on Acre.


    That's all I can think of for now, but I am sure there is more to discuss. In the meantime, I am starting to think that my short-term role here is to play neutral while slowly gaining information that we both can use. This means I will likely accept the Drama trade with Templars if they are still willing to offer it. There is also another opportunity soon for us to trade Gems to Imperio for another food resource (that I wouldn't max my cities with), which would lure them in and could be more devastating to them if broken. Or the 3 resources they would get from us could keep them from declaring on us when we try to break the alliance by going after the Templars. Of course this is all speculative, and the payoff (aka our engagement) would probably not happen for 15-20 turns.

    For now, please do your best to withstand the coming assault from your two neighbors. I will do my best to help in any way I can, and apologize if any recent actions of our team have made you think otherwise. With that said, I would like to formalize an extension of our current NAP agreement to cover the entire duration of your war with Imperio/Templars. I look forward to your thoughts as to where we progress from there.

    Respectfully,
    Donovan Zoi
    Team Banana
    I sent them the following quick response ...
    Team Banana,

    Our 'Banana' thread is currently discussing an email to you so your email was particularly well timed. I hope to be able to send you something shortly.

    Team RB
    Last edited by ruff_hi; April 20, 2009, 09:06.
    Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
    Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
    woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

    Comment


    • suggested reply built from sooooo's email from above ...

      Dear Team Banana,

      Thanks for your recent email. Re recent lack of communication ... it was a) Pre-occupied. We are sorry for that as you know we have been pre-occupied with Templars declaring on us and Imperio likely to do the same, so our "Banana" thread kept getting pushed down with the flood of battle tactic threads.

      I'll update you with the war situation: Templars declared on us in the south and sent a rather laughable stack at us (they have a low power rating, so it is probably the best they can muster). It is currently camped out on a hill, unsure what to do. If they move the stack off the hill towards our city it is toast. Imperio have not yet declared but their main stack is in sight in one of their border cities. We are well placed to deal with it. So we feel we are doing fine on both fronts and you don't have to worry about us. Imperio did close borders and has pillaged our road network where it passed through neutral territory and we were surprised that our trade routes and resource deals with you and PAL are still intact, so that is very good news for both of us.

      We thought you might be concerned with a delay for your nationalism tech due to the war, but that disruption should be small. We have spent some money to upgrade troops, but nationalism research should commence shortly.

      We understand your need to trade resources with Imperio and are OK with that currently - your outline of the resources traded (happy to them, health to you) and the resulting impact if anything should happen to those trades sounds well thought out. A source of your incense would be nice in the future.

      Thanks for the heads up re PAL. Please keep us informed of what they are researching and your relationships with them.

      Regarding the map situation: I'm afraid we have decided not to trade maps with anyone at the current time. The team is currently discussing situational screenshot trading.

      Regarding PAL's war with Rabbits - we recently discussed this live with PAL and they reported that they didn't have a single unit in Rabbit's territory. They recently captured a barbarian city - they appear to us to have lost momentum on the Rabbit front.

      Cheers,

      Realms Beyond.
      Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
      Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
      woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

      Comment


      • Fine by me.

        Comment


        • Do we want to talk about what he mentioned about Guilds? How might that affect our war plans if we got Guilds soon?

          Comment


          • re guilds ...

            "At present, neither Templar or Imperio represent a real threat to us. The addition of knights on our side would help but would not tip the balance our way. Thus, quick access to knights is not a critical success factor for us."

            Re templar holy city ...

            "Re your comments abotu Acre. That certainly raises some interesting options. Are you considering a lightning raid against Templar and razing Acre? That would certainly annoy Templar (and cause much laughter at TRB - even more so if you have a warrior around to do the job)."
            Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
            Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
            woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

            Comment


            • Well we build knights instead of HAs, at least while we've got iron, and get a better success rate on counterattacks. Knights aren't suitable for city busting or stack defense, since both pikes and elephants trump them.

              We should definitely encourage Banana to bulb Guilds. That way their GP benefits us too. The best news if Banana bulbs Guilds is that they can also research another tech to trade us in the near future. What if Banana goes straight to Gunpowder next, and we trade Philosophy + Nationalism for Guilds + Gunpowder? The beaker counts are close, 800 + 1800 vs 1000 + 1200, and we do owe Banana some kind of favor for the Iron deals.

              Comment


              • haven't we already traded them a tech for guilds? Is someone keeping all of these trade agreements somewhere?
                Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

                Comment


                • I think we should let him choose how he wants to get guilds. We should include that in the email.

                  Comment


                  • Actually we should suggest that they run 0% science while waiting for the GP.

                    Comment


                    • I think the deal was they give us guilds when they researched it and we then research gunpowder and give it to them.

                      Comment


                      • Us getting Guilds (even if we don't plan to build any Knights) could get Imperio to reconsider their war plans.

                        mh

                        Comment


                        • Nononono, the trade deal we agreed on was guilds for nationalism.

                          Comment


                          • we really need to start an 'agreements' thread
                            Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure"
                            Visit my Civ IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools
                            woo hoo! My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.

                            Comment


                            • OK, ammended Ruff's second draft to address the unadressed issues:

                              Dear Team Banana,

                              Thanks for your recent email. Re recent lack of communication ... it was a) Pre-occupied - sorry about that. With Templars declaring on us and Imperio likely to do the same, our "Banana" thread kept getting pushed down with the flood of battle tactic threads.

                              I'll update you with the war situation: Templars declared on us in the south and sent a rather laughable stack at us (they have a low power rating, so it is probably the best they can muster). It is currently camped out on a hill, unsure what to do. If they move the stack off the hill towards our city it is toast. Imperio have not yet declared but their main stack is in sight in one of their border cities. We are well placed to deal with it. So we feel we are doing fine on both fronts and you don't have to worry about us. Imperio did close borders and have pillaged our road network where it passed through neutral territory. We were surprised that our trade routes and resource deals with you and PAL are still intact, so that is very good news for both of us.

                              We thought you might be concerned with a delay for your nationalism tech due to the war, but that disruption should be small. We have spent some money to upgrade troops, but nationalism research should commence shortly.

                              We understand your need to trade resources with Imperio and are OK with that currently - your outline of the resources traded (happy to them, health to you) and the resulting impact if anything should happen to those trades sounds well thought out. A source of your incense would be nice in the future.

                              Thanks for the heads up re PAL. Please keep us informed of what they are researching and your relationships with them.

                              Map situation: I'm afraid we have decided not to trade maps with anyone at the current time. The team is currently discussing situational screenshot trading.

                              Re Guilds: If you run 0% science until you get the GP then that gives you the most flexibility and you won't lose anything. We would naturally enjoy the ability to build knights sooner .

                              Re PAL's war with Rabbits: we recently discussed this live with PAL and they reported that they didn't have a single unit in Rabbit's territory. They recently captured a barbarian city - they appear to us to have lost momentum on the Rabbit front.

                              Re Acre. That certainly raises some interesting options. Are you considering a lightning raid against Templar and razing Acre? That would certainly annoy Templar (and cause much laughter at TRB - even more so if you have a warrior around to do the job).

                              Cheers,

                              Realms Beyond.

                              Comment


                              • What do you guys think about his resource trades? I know he isn't on our team, but I don't know if "the trade is so one-sided in their favor, they won't break it" is actually a good thing as he seems to think.

                                Content-wise I'm fine with the email proposed above.

                                Comment

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