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Guys, please don't make me start to moderate your posts.
Calling each others names will not solve the issue. From now on I'll just edit all qualifications people give to others, out of their posts.
Some may say that it's not fun to not open the forums, which has some truth in it, but there's also not much fun in starting to yell at each other and continue to push others to open their forums.
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
The most amusing thing about this controversy is that any damage that could have been done to Templar reputation by opening the forums is probably less than what the people will assume now. Why would normally friendly and reasonable players get so defensive at the mere idea of opening their forum to public? What could possibly be in there?
Every team's forum opened so far includes some insults of opponents, some discussion of breaking NAPs, some stupid mistakes, and so on. That is just the nature of the game and nobody is embarrassed by it. So what incredibly immoral, or overwhelmingly stupid posts are Templars trying to hide? (And no, it's not just a desire for privacy, considering that other teams were nearly unanimous in their decision to open the forums and Templars were nearly unanimous in decision not to do so, to the point of getting site admins to overrule the game admin. If the desire to keep forum hidden came from just a couple of vocal posters I might have belived it. But if the decision was nearly unanimous, and inlcluded people like Sir Aidun, who never missed a chance to share his views during the game, it indicates that there was something going on in those forums that they wouldn't want exposed.)
What happened here is a very good example of polarisation.
Two different opinions are not a problem. How you handle differences is the problem.
If the people of opinion A start being very expressive towards the people of Opinion B or start to make demands, threats, etc. , the 'B people' will take an even more solid stand on their opinion.
So calling names and making demands etc. always is the end of a possible solution.
If people want to solve an issue, never do any of the above described stuff.
But rather first try to understand, be kind, understand that someone may have valid reasons, and then from that point on, try to reach a compromise.
A lesson for the next dispute
/lecture mode
Formerly known as "CyberShy"
Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori
What happened here is a very good example of polarisation.
Two different opinions are not a problem. How you handle differences is the problem.
If the people of opinion A start being very expressive towards the people of Opinion B or start to make demands, threats, etc. , the 'B people' will take an even more solid stand on their opinion.
So calling names and making demands etc. always is the end of a possible solution.
If people want to solve an issue, never do any of the above described stuff.
But rather first try to understand, be kind, understand that someone may have valid reasons, and then from that point on, try to reach a compromise.
A lesson for the next dispute
/lecture mode
*shrug* We have. the PtWDG forums weren't opened, even after several teams wanted to. Same with the PtWDG2.
C3CDG, well, there were good reasons for keeping those fora locked.
C4DG, some forums were opened, but Vox kept theirs closed even though they were choked out of the game from t30, and there was nothing interesting to keep hidden.
Warlords DG, I can't remember if opening them was mooted or not, that one kinda died a death of loneliness.
The only constant through all of these is that a small group of players has always played together, and always refuses to open their forum at the end of the game. This is the fifth time of asking, and they haven't softened their stance once. Frankly everyone else has gotten pissed enough to stop playing demogames here, which is why now 2/6 teams come from other sites originally, 3/6 by the end.
You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.
First we wanted to try what a religious focus would be like in a MP game. With the jungle that close though it ended up not showing real results other than in an MP game it is really easy to have a double religious capital when you start with Mystism.
Started with about 30. But upon seeing the first map, people started to drop off. Degraded a lot when it was clear that even if we had focused on something other than religion at the beginning we had no real chance of winning. Basically to me, our starting position only looks winnable in a SP game and that only if you rush one of your opponents soon enough to get their higher quality lands. With our civ, in a SP game against the AI that builds lots of Archers and isn't programmed to defend against rushes, yup rushing both of them very doable. Not so much against humans.
Beginning was as a team. Degraded to individuals towards the end.
Even with better land we would have semi-OCCed until we founded our second religion (or failed from someone else getting that tech) with the plan to found the second city the turn after it. But with this bad quality land we were OCCing a lot longer than intended by the bad starting terrain.
Again: The low hammer starting terrain.
Figured we had an relative advantage researching other stuff. And I don't think my team would mind me saying that RB's Pink Dot location caused us to focus on wanting to rush to Iron Working for defense. And again, the bad quality land hurt us in techs in general.
I wasn't monitoring our workers at all throughout the game, you'll have to ask our primary turn player. If it was when we don't have BW or IW though could have been we didn't have anything better for them to do at the time than mine it in preparation for the next city.
I think the point is that you want your private forum to stay private because (insert your reasons here) while at the same time not extending those reasons to others by not reading their ex-private forum.
Would Templars be willing to provide answers to specific questions? I'll start ...
What was your purpose in playing this game? Fun / Win / Spoil / Other?
Were there many people in your team?
Was the play dictated by your team or a limited number of individuals?
Did you hate RB? If so, why? If not, why not?
Where you playing a OCC?
What took you so long to settle your 2nd city? Why the delay?
How come you didn't tech calendar and improve those sugars?
Why did you waste worker turns moving your workers to hills outside any city radius and mining them?
1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
Templar Science Minister
AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.
I think I can also safely say that the biggest debate as a team we had was what do we do about RB's having founded Pink Dot so darn close to our capital.
The option we considered (but didn't take) was send what few Qs we did have to Pink Dot; DOW RB upon hiting the cultural boundary and try to raize it to the ground. Meanwhile all production would have switched to military units. This option wasn't chosen because even the supporters admited we'll probably lose the game if it were chosen with how weak our miliary was and how few Qs we had nearby. Not to mention RB having the ability to build their UU which is really good against Qs. The best we think we could have done was indeed raize Pink Dot losing most of the Qs which RBs forces from their capital could easily mop up upon their arrival. Most of us expected that we wouldn't even have accomplished that but would have left 1 heavily damaged RB defender there.
1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
Templar Science Minister
AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.
thx Jonc for the comments. BTW: our UU was a musket replacement - I think you saw that later in the game when we drafted about 20 of them.
Quote: "All Happiness is the release of internal pressure" Visit myCiv IV web site for information on mods that I am involved with or use and other Civ IV tools woo hoo!My wife publishes her first book. Buy it now in paperback format at lulu and help me retire so I can write more BUG mod code.
Thanks Joncnunn, that's a very good summary of the starting period.
Also as Jonc said we did consider sending our Q's against Pink Dot. But say we won (close), which was possible, what then at this very early stage. (Well before the PaL/ Rabbits war).
Exit RB or exit us or severe damage to both: end of good relations; end of dg game or possible limited growth: that was not what we as Templars had signed up for.
So in the end we decided to cut some slack, but it hurt.
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