Civilizations version 3.0 hosted by Me

[loinburger]

OK people, here’s the deal. Most of this thread was a list of “I like this civilization, let’s put it in,” with some information such as civilization specific units and leaders included for some (but not all) civilizations. According to the survey that Apolyton took, the bulk of us want oodles of civilizations in Civ III, and so included here is a whole slew of what Civers want. The numbering system is simple- Section 1 is all of the civilizations that were proposed, ‘a’ being the proposed leaders for that civ, ‘b’ being the proposed “civilization specific” weaponry for that civ. Section 2 is everything else.

1. Big List of Civilizations.

1. Ghana/Mali/Songhai (sub-Saharan civilizations), probably Mali.
a. Sundjata (male, warlike, expansionist); Musa (male peaceful, perfectionist-technologist, religious); Soumauro Kante (male, very warlike); Sogolon (female, peaceful); Sassouma Berete (female, warlike).

2. Japanese:
a. Tokugawa; Hirohito; Hideyoshi (warlike expansionist); Oda Nobunaga (warlike expansionist); Ko Sanjo (female, perfectionist); Tomoe Gozen (female, warlike, perfectionist)
b. Samurai.

3. English:
a. William the Conquerer; Elizabeth I; Winston Churchill; Bernard Montgomery; Tony Blair;
b. Longbowmen.

4. Greeks:
a. Plato; Alexander the Great; Basileios II; Pericles; Constantus

5. Americans:
a. George Washington; Abraham Lincoln; FDR; Adams; Jefferson; Nathaniel Greene; Madison; Grant; Johnson; Name That President

6. Babylonians:
a. Sargon; Hammurabi; Nebukadnezzar

7. Chinese:
a. Ying Cheng(Shi Huang Di); Li Shimin (Tang Tai Zung); Mao Tsetung; Shi Huangdi; Tang Tai Zung; Deng Xioping; Jiang Zemin

8. Egyptians:
a. Ramses II; Saladin; Nasser; Sadat

9. French (Franks):
a. Charlemagne; Louis XIV; Napoleon; Mitterand; Chirac; Charles de Gaulle

10. Germans (Teutons):
a. Frederik Barbarossa; Frederik the Great; Adolf Hitler; Attila; Helmut Kohl;

11. Persians:
a. Darius I; Ayatollah Khomeini; Shapur; Cyrus

12. Romans:
a. Romulus; Octavian; Constantine; Mussolini; Scipio

13. Russians:
a. Ivan the Grozny; Peter the Great; Vladimir Lenin; Stalin

14. Turks:
a. Mehmed II; Kemal Ataturk

15. Shona:
a. Robert Mugabe

16. Ndebele:
a. Mzilikazi; Lobengula

17. Masai

18. Swahili:
a. Tippoo Tib


2. Civilizations And Stuff

1. Leaders:
Each civilization is given a choice of five or so leaders which are selected at the beginning of the game, and may or may not change. These leader choices might affect such things as…
Unit offense, defense, hit points, firepower, and movement rating;
Effectiveness of administration (some leaders are more prone to corruption, some leaders are predisposed towards a certain government style);
Effectiveness of leadership (if the leader is a famous general);
Predisposition towards certain types of research, taxation;

2. Minor Civs:
These are, well, minor civs. Like small civs. Why aren’t they large civs, you ask? Because they’re small, ya moron. These would come about from things like a revolution (like, the French Empire splits into the French Empire and the Flench Empire, with the Flench Empire acting as a splinter civilization), from barbarians conquering a city (or founding their own), or from exploring and discovering fifty unique civilizations per square mile. Clearly the latter can become tedious if overdone.

3. Neutral Civs:
These are peaceloving civilizations (the Swiss, or the Greenlanders), who pretty much only engage in trade. There would be diplomatic penalties involved with invading these fellas.

4. Big List O Minor Civs:
Guti, Kassites, Amories, Cimmerians, Ligurians, Hurrians, Thracians, Illyrians, Phrygians, Sakae, Scythians, Nubians, Sarmatians, Numidians, Bactrians, Parthians, Yue-Chi, Hsung-Nu, Alans, Roxoloni, Surens, Kushans, Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals, Gepids, Marcomanni, Franks, Burgundians, Bayoroi, Alemanni, Jutes, Angles, Saxons, Avars, Bulgars, Khazaks, Patzinals, Magyars, Ghuzz, Seljuks, Cumans, Sarbadars, Uzbeks, Circassians.

5. Schisms:
So let’s say that a Civ had a civil war. Would the French split into the French and the Flench necessarily? Preferably they would split into the French and the Spanish, something more historically accurate and feasible. Here’s a big list of civilizations that are related to each other-if one has a civil war and the other didn’t exist at the start of the game, then the other gets created.
Aztecs-Teotihuacans-Olmec
Inca-Tiahuacanos-Moche
English-Americans-Canadians
Russians-Polish-Mongols
Greeks-Romans-Minoans
Egyptians-Assyrians-Babylonians
French-German-Spanish
Sioux-Iroqoius-Navaho
Chinese-Japanese-Korean
Indians-Siamese-Khmer

6. Migrations + Nomads:
These would be caused by major cities falling, changes in climate, major religious movements sweeping a continent, etc. Nomadic units and refugee units will move about the map looking for a new place to live. (Nomadic units are self-sustaining military units that can turn into a population point in a city. Some barbarian units are nomadic units. They’re like mobile cities, but their improvements have different names and are often less effective-City Walls (Wagon-Burgh), Library (Shaman’s Hut), Temple (Sacred Grove), Palace (Chieftain’s Hut), Market Place (Bazaar), and additionally Nomads are quite inefficient at using materials from

[loinburger]

Short summary, you say? If I've glossed over something, tell me and I'll pay it special heed when I go through this stuff a second time, which I will be doing. But hey, I knocked this off in only two hours! If I never get around to improving it, at least this much gets sent in.

[ottok]

as mee post
1. where, what and why

2. leaders

3. own units.


1.
Europe:
In "North Countries"
Norway, Sweden and Denmark, and Vikings. Rich and Historilly.
Center Europe
German, Poland and Swiss maybe Stech and Slovenia. Why?

East Europe
Russia, Turks, Greeks;. Romania & Bulgary ?

Ex Jugoslavia
Serbia, Monterecno, Macerep, Bosnia?

Brittain´s
English, Scotts, Wales, Irelands?

West Europe
Italy, Spanish, Portugal Holland& Belgia", Katalonia?

Ancinent Times
Greete,Macen, Mycenen, Athena, Sparta, Rome, Etrusk, Huns, Kimbris.

Afrikka

Today

Egypt, Tunis, Algeria, Soutafrikka.

Ancinent.

Zulus, Cartachos, Great Zimbawe.

Aasian

Today

Chinese, Japan, Indian, Koreas, Mongols.

Americans

Today

USA, Canada,Mexico,Braxily.

Ancinent

Aztecks, Incas, Sioux, Maya, Cherorkees, Carawak.

58.

2. i not know what isnt know there?

3. Player make own look mixunits, every build every. So arghes with Guns!
;/ hawe i hope undrestand!

[yin26]

O.K. It's in the list! GREAT work, Theben. If you update this soon, please shoot me a quick e-mail.

Yin

[Theben]

Uh, thanks, Yin, but you should give credit where credit is due. It was technophile's summary.

[Maniac]

Most of us want minor civs, but none of us has come up with exact rules what they would and wouldn’t be able to do. If we make those, I think we’ll have a better chance Firaxis will consider them seriously.

When we take a look at the Civ2 rules, there were 3 factors that determined a civ: attack, expand and civilize. There were 3 values for each, ranging from +1 to –1. Well, I would create a –2 value for attack and expand. Every minor civ would have those.

-2 for attack would mean they are very pacifist and will never start a war on their own with a major civ. They will always try to sign peace treaties. Also, if possible, they will exchange techs etc.
They will also ally with one major civ and have a tendency to take over his SE settings.

Trading with a minor civ would be more profitable than trading with a major civ. And, I don’t know if this is included in the Economy or Diplomacy summary, but I would like that you have a commerce bonus when the civ you’re trading with has similar SE settings. So it would be very profitable to have some minor allies in your ‘sphere of influence’.

This could also create cold war conditions where one major civ tries to persuade a minor civ to become his ally and desolve the alliance with another civ.
A minor civ would be able to declare war to another minor civ. This could create again cold war situations where one major civ backs up his minor civ ally whilst the other minor civ is also protected/backed up.

-2 for expand would mean that they can at any time only found/possess maximum three cities.

Minor civs shouldn’t be able to build wonders, except perhaps those with a one-city-only or one-time-only effect like the Colossus or Darwin’s Voyage.

Has anyone got other ideas?

[Idiot]

I have a vague idea on how to implement the whole small civ thing.

First, get rid of barbarians. After all, aren't barbarians actually small civs. If you increase the number of civs in the game based upon the amount of land, you can have a whole bunch of civs out there, small and large. Eventually, the smaller, weaker ones will be dominated by stronger ones. Just as in the real world, civs that are more secluded than others will tend to be less advanced.

Also, in later stages of the game, you can add to the small civ number by splintering off civs that have large amounts of unhappiness for reasons such as civil war and such. This would force players to focus a bit more on population happiness.

[Maniac]

I don't think you should rid the entire concept of barbarians. You should replace them by nomads. That's not the same as minor civs.

[Mo]

Minor civs should be able to become a major civ through time. If they merge with one another they will found a major civ and also if they conquer cities from a major civ to reach past the three city limit.
At the begining of the game there should be a limit that if a civ doesn't expand to this size by x number of turns it will play the game as a minor civ and if it achieves these goals it will play as a major. This will keep the games varied so that there can be different major civs in each game.

[Mo]

I don't think they should be less advanced because of their trade, but they should become satalite states of superpowers in the later half of the game. Also after a surrender a civ can be split up into minor civs or one major and minor(s) depending upon the size. Colonies should often split off into a minor civs.

[The Joker]

I really like the concept of minor civs. But I don't think they should be fundamentally different from major ones. They should simply be small civs. Minor civs could simply be civs that never became very large, or civs that started later in the game. I would like that if a significant land mass was not colonized for some time small civs would simply emerge there. They could either be breakoffs from other civs (you could get the message that 1 citizen from city X had moved and started it's own civ due to dissatifaction with your SE settings or because it is another nationality than yours). This could happend pretty often, not often enough to mean a lot for the civ they broke loose from, but enough to make a lot of small independant civs. This happend numerous times in the real world: the ancient Greek colonization of the eastern Mediterranean a few centuries BC, the Viking colonization of Iceland, Greenland and America around 1000 AD and the European colonization of America in the centuries after 1492.

Minor civs could easily be made into puppet states (check out the definition in the SE thread) of your empire. And if the world in modern times became like the real one, where no developed civ could conquor another one due to the UN, allies etc. you could expand your civ with these puppet states. Like the Cold War.

[Mo]

I think that in the begining of the game the world should be sprinkled with civs most of them minor and then as time progresses some will unite to form larger civs.

[Theben]

Now that I looked closer, do you (techy-poo) realize that the bottom of your summary is chopped off? You never put in the rest!

[CormacMacArt]

May I suggest:

Irish
a. Brian Boru, Niall of the Nine Hostages, Cormac Mac Art, Conn of 100 Battles
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by CormacMacArt (edited November 19, 1999).]</font>

[ottok]

keep "originals" there.
But hey?!
is there the nation what we forget?