The Essential Civ 3 - Guidelines

[korn469]

raingoon

to make a link you will have to use html and type in {a href="insert link here"}name of link{/a}
and use < instead of {

ex.

<a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000272.html">The Essential Civ 3 - Guidelines</a>

don't worry about the new ideas, i will start a new thread and have yin26 to close your original thread so i can edit it and cut down on your management time

yes people who have already started to second ideas will have to resecond them for a few reasons

1. at the time they made their second, they didn't have full knowledge of all the choices available

2. the final draft of the idea they seconded might have changed so they might want to second another idea

3. the idea they seconded might be dropped

4. this is the discusion phase, and not the nominating phase...the main point of this phase is to collect ideas and discuss them and then write a clear and meaningful idea to send to firaxis

Clarification

do we need a non-biased person to act as a vot counter to make sure that people do not go over their five nominations per list vote limit? or do you think people are ok with us doing it? i want this to be as legit as possible that's why i am asking

korn469
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited February 23, 2000).]</font>

[MarkG]

just a note on linking to threads
this link http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000272.html#18
links to the 18th reply(19th post) of that thread, while this link http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000272.html
to the starting post...
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited February 23, 2000).]</font>

[korn469]

Markg

i changed it and thanks for clarifying that!

[korn469]

MarkG

could you lock The Essential Civ3 New Ideas Thread created by raingoon...i have opened a new Essential Civ3 New Ideas thread so that i can edit the it and put in the nesecarry links so raingoon won't have to manage his thread and co-manage my thread to...thank mark!

[raingoon]

Korn469,

Since I've already made nominations of my own, it might be best to do as you suggest and be above board all the way. Of course anybody can see the votes for themselves, but I agree we want to be beyond reproach.

[korn469]

MarkG

could you do one more favor? i did some cleaning up and found that four current threads don't belong in the New Ideas list. could you lock these four threads which are more of fixes than New Ideas?

EC3 New Idea #2 - IMPROVED GRAPHICS
EC3 New Idea #7 - FAST GRAPHICS
EC3 New Idea #22 - Animated Water
EC3 New Idea #31 - A killer soundtrack

thanks in advance!

korn469

[MarkG]

well, we're supposed to have moderators for this job! YIN! THEBEN!!!
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited February 24, 2000).]</font>

[MarkG]

well, yin and theben seem to be absent, so...

[korn469]

final drafts: ok we are getting close to end of the subbmission phase, so before we go to the nomination phase we have to decide on final drafts...so here is the system i propose

once a person decides on their final draft here is the form it should have

You must submit a final draft for your idea to get a nominating thread

the words final draft at the top of the post

this means that by this post will go to the nominating thread exactly as it is in the final draft with no changes

the title of the idea

the idea. it should be clear, consise, contain no spelling errors, contain few if any other types of errors. the idea should tell exactly what it does and should explain the idea. it should be a self contained idea. that means no references to outside materials for example it should not say "use the list". the wording should be such that there is little room for confusion on the idea. since it is a self contained idea, the idea itself must be 300 words or less. this will make it possible to expalin some of the more complicated ideas. this is the final form of how the idea will get sent to firaxis. (if it does get sent)

below the idea in the final draft one can put up to a 300 word argument for including their idea. this will not be sent to firaxis and can be in any form and can say anything so long as its 300 words or less. this will go in the nominating thread with their idea. it should be clearly seperated from the idea by some easily recongnizable means. for example...

the idea

***

the argument

nominating and voting: each idea will get its own nominating thread, everybody can nominate up to five ideas per list. if u have an idea in a particular list it counts as a nomination. the nomination threads should remain clear of posts and when a persons enters a vote they should say either, i second this or i vote for this all nominations so far are just informal and you have to nominate an idea in its nominating thread for it to count towards the official total. all nominations are final. so carefully read over each and every idea before you make your nomination. once a vote is cast, it cannot be recended.

besides the nominating threads we will open a vote tracking thread...as soon as you make your first vote, post in the thread and tell what you voted for in each list and what your total number of votes are. go back and edit your post with each vote so it is current. this will allow easy monitoring and keep voter fraud to a minimum.

me and raingoon will monitor the votes to make sure people don't exceed their limit. and resolve any differences as they come up. if anyone thinks that either raingoon or I will not be impartial if we have an idea submitted to the list, then i will not submit an idea and i will be the one to monitor the votes. i encourage everyone to take personal responsibility and follow the rules. so far we have 41 ideas, only ten will make it to the list so 31 people with good ideas are going to get disappointed. that is a sad fact of life with this list, but do not let personal disappointment turn you off to the list. when the list is finished see if it's a good guide for firaxis. if it is then vote yes for it when the time comes. with this list firaxis will know where the fans stand...the Essential Civ3 List rejects Civ2.5 and hopefully will help firaxis to make the game we all want

reminders: the submission phase ends at 11:59PM EST March 1, 2000.
the final draft phase is extended to 8:00AM EST March 6, 2000
me and raingoon will put up the nominating threads on March 6, 2000 and voting will begin then.

korn469
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited February 28, 2000).]</font>

[SnowFire]

For the record I'm opposed to the idea. Either Firaxis is interested in our input or not, and if they are, then we should just re-send the List or something. We cheapen all the other ideas sent by making only a few seem important.

[korn469]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by SnowFire on 02-28-2000 08:18 PM</font>
For the record I'm opposed to the idea. Either Firaxis is interested in our input or not, and if they are, then we should just re-send the List or something. We cheapen all the other ideas sent by making only a few seem important.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

snowfire,

i'm just curious but so do you think that every single idea included in the list version 2.0 is of equal importance? if you do then i must disagree

to defend this idea, i want to say this...

this is not a replacement for the list, it is only a compliment.

this doesn't tell firaxis everything we want, the list has already been sent, it has already got its shot...

this is a completely democratic process and if the people don't agree with the content of the list they can vote it down...

everyone can take part and everyone has equal say in deciding what goes into the list

and finally

Why is it wrong to pick the ten things you want most? What is wrong with priorities? I think that priorities are good...and the original philosohpy of the list was
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>if only one idea gets included then the list is a success"
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

so just because some good ideas won't get included in The Essential Civ3 List even though ten good ideas will be included then this is a travisty of justice? i hardly think so...

also the list forum had really died down...lately things have been more active and the EC3 list does not proclude making a list version 3.0, and actually the EC3 list is a good precurser to making a list version 3.0

however because of your critisism i suggest we include a disclaimer that says something to the effect that this is just ten ideas most people agree were essential to making civ3, and that there are various other great ideas in the list that they shouldn't ignore

korn469
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by korn469 (edited February 28, 2000).]</font>

[raingoon]

I don't think "disclaimer" is the right word. Firaxis knows there is a master List. Three or four (two from here, two from SidGames) in fact. They're swimming in monster lists over there, a fact they hardly need pointed out by us. We should simply restate what the EC3 is intended to be, exactly how many voted on it, and let them be the judge.

But in these days of obvious turmoil on the Civ 3 project at Firaxis, I suggest we are serving an even more valuable purpose than we thought by trying to give Firaxis a "vision" for what we care about in the game. I'd say the EC3 is working out to be quite timely.

[MidKnight Lament]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by raingoon on 02-29-2000 04:31 AM</font>
I'd say the EC3 is working out to be quite timely.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

...and may i say congrats to raingoon, and korn469 for looking after the list and keeping it under control.

[applause resounds]

[Zanzibar]

I second this!

[korn469]

earlier tonight i sent out an email update here it is

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>***The Essential Civ3 Mail Update!***

Current Status of the EC3 list

The submission stage of the EC3 list is over. The EC3 list currently has 21
active topics under Fixes and 34 active topics under New Ideas. We are now
about to proceed to the next stage, which will be the official Nominating
Process. However, before we can do that, each topic must have a final draft.

The only person that can submit a final draft is the one who had the
original idea. For example, DaveV is the only person who can submit the
final draft for New Ideas #1 Open Source AI, since he started it.

All submissions MUST HAVE A FINAL DRAFT to be included in the official
nominating process. To submit your final draft, open up your thread and
label your final with the words Final Draft in bold, and then place you idea

under that. That is so it will be easy to identify your final draft and
place it in the nominating thread. If you do not submit a final draft for
your idea then unfortunately it will not be included in the EC3 nominating
process.

Once the Final Draft is put on the nominating thread there is no changing
it, so make sure it says what you want it to say.

A final draft should follow these guidelines:

-It should contain an idea, not just a complaint. It should not say just Fix

Settlers. It should offer some solution on how to implement the idea. It
doesn't have to be completely detailed, it just has to offer some
constructive criticism.
-It should be as clear and concise as possible, a good final draft should be

easy to understand and the gist of the idea should be readily apparent.
Since this is going to Firaxis, the Final Draft should have as few spelling
errors as possible. We don't want to look like idiots.
-The Final Draft of your idea should be as brief as possible. A SUGGESTED
length is between 300-600 words. However, if it takes longer than that to
explain the idea that is fine. Please do not argue for your idea in the
Final Draft, just give the idea. Please do not submit a 30,000 word Final
Draft either.
-Please look over suggestions and critiques of your idea that have came up
in the discussion of your idea. Try to either incorporate what was said or
offer some solutions to the problems brought up in the discussion in your
Final Draft.
-Because of some technical difficulties it has taken me an extra day to send

out this notice. Because of the short notice, the Final Drafts are due by
11:59 Wednesday March 8, 2000.
-Take what little time you have and discuss your idea and work out the
kinks. These ideas are going to Firaxis (if they pass) and they need to be
ready for prime time. It is a definite possibility that Sid Meier and other
great gaming minds will read these ideas and consider them for Civ3, so they

had better be ready to stand up under some harsh criticism.

The EC3 List will contain 5 Fixes and 5 New Ideas. Since presumably all of
the ideas contained in this list are Essential to making it Civ3 and not
Civ2.5 all of the ideas should be unique. Right now there are a number of
trade threads. To be exact there is one Trade thread under fixes and two
under New Ideas. DaveV, Imran Siddiqui, and Pythagoras come together and try

your best to create one compromise trade idea. The same is true of regional
boundaries. Waynehead you and EnochF try to make a compromise thread. If i
left out any trade or regional boundaries threads, please get together with
the others. Try to come to a consensus that is agreeable to all, because
only one version of an idea is eligable to make the final list.

Once we have all of the final drafts we will move to the Nominating Phase.
Any nominations in the discussion threads do not count. Only Nominations in
the Official Nominating Threads will count.

If you have not already signed up in the EC3 Email List Thread, please do to

show your support for the EC3 List.

MarkG since you are on the email list could you please put up a reminder
that final drafts for the EC3 list are due by wednesday?

One last thing is i would like to thank everyone for their participation! I
would like to extend special thanks to my co-conspirator in EC3 List
Raingoon, and I would like to thank DanQ and MarkG for giving the EC3 so
much support!

If you have any questions please email me at korn469@mindless.com

korn469

<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

so in summary, if you have a thread you need to post a final draft and you need to do it by wednesday...on thursday two nominating threads will be opened, one for each list, you will have have votes in each thread and you must vote for your own idea. also all of your nominations should be in a single submission for counting purposes...

so you will only post one time and you will post your five votes, please only post once...cluttering up the thread could harm this process so i ask you to please follow the guidelines...

this is a form of competitions and most of these great ideas won't get sent to firaxis, so in that spirit there will be a lobbying+*****ing thread, post in it all you want so the official nominating process will have five threads

a Thread with each of the Fixes Final Drafts in it numbered and titled

a thread with each of the New Idea Final Drafts in it numbered and titled

two official voting threads

a thread for everyone to promote their EC3 ideas in and to give commentary or whatever

*there will be no more delays in the cutoff date for final drafts...it's time to wrap the EC3 up

korn469