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  • #31
    Animals
    These units are controlled by the general AI (similar to barbarians). There should be a few types. Some can be dangerous to unarmed units (i.e., Settlers). They should NOT provide food (like AoE)... too much micromanagement and too large a scale in Civ. They should be random, slowing down as the years pass by. However, city growth should (slightly) increase the chances of them appearing around nearby smaller cities. (Urban growth pushes the animals out of their natural habitat.) There should be a chance of catching/taming them, probably based on a discovered tech. In the very early game, they could make decent combat units. (Like mindworms in SMAC.) In the mid-to-late game, no military unit should fear them but unarmed units will still need to be careful. Of course, in the later game, animals will only pop up far from cities.

    In some ways, these are just a variation of early barbarians, but can add a bit more flavor to the game.

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    • #32
      EXPLORERS
      In history most explorers where private individuals, not goverment owned (as in civ 2) Maybe the explorers in Civ 3 could be random events offering maps for money, or supplys etc. Maybe they will give the maps to you out of sheer nationlism. However they might name rivers etc. after themselves. Another idea would be to put away a certan % of trade towards exploration.

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      • #33
        Plague and Pestilence:

        I was listening to UN radio at lunch today, and they were discussing the current AIDS epidemic. While only about 1% of industralised population is affected, the percentage is as high as 20% (!!!) in some developing antions. This got me thinking about plagues and epidemics in general.

        Plagues should start, randomly, in one city. Said city has a chance of losing a population point every turn that the plague is in existance. In addition, the plage might spread, after the first turn, to cities within, say, 8 squares (this radius of effect may grow with technology, as we become world travellers. AIDS is thought to have originated in Africa. A couple of hundred years ago, it would have never left the continent. Now it's all around the world). The next turn these newly infected cities could infect other neighboring cities.

        Effects may be limited. No city could ever lose more than 1/3 of it's original, pre-plague population. No city could be affected for more than 10 turns. Developments in health would reduce the chances of population loss per turn, from 60% early on, to 40% with medicine, to 20% in modern era (or whatever). Aqueducts and sewersystems should also have an effect, both in reducing population loss, and reducing the chances that a plague would originate in that city in the first place.

        Might be kind of interesting, when you look at what an enormous impact events like the Black Plague have had on history.

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        • #34
          Interesting Idea.

          Plauges could also be started by other empires as an attack. THey would spread to nearby cities (connected by roads/RR) and to more distant cities by trade routes.

          Any city with an airport has a chance of being infected if any other city with an airport thta ou are not at war with is also infected.

          Hospitals drastically reduce infection chances.

          The worst hit areas would be cities with airports but without the rest of modern infrastructure to protect them.

          Pop loss would be as a % pop per turn, unitl it has run it's course (I favour a % growth rate, THen the pop rounded to the nearest Pop point number to determine numberof squares worked)

          No modern tech/structures would be high dieoff rate, but low chance of being ingfected.

          ------------------
          "Any technology, sufficiently advanced,
          is indistinguishable from magic"
          -Arthur C. Clark
          "Any technology, sufficiently advanced,
          is indistinguishable from magic"
          -Arthur C. Clark

          Comment


          • #35
            I've posted the following related to diseases in the Terrain section, but it appears that it more properly belongs here...

            In Colonial times, the inhabitants of New England lived for about 20 to 30 years longer (on average) than the inhabitants of Florida or Georgia. This is because heat and humidity affect the rate at which disease is spread--the hotter it is, the wetter it is, the sicker people get (this is especially true in Swamp or Jungle areas).

            In the Terrain section a proposal was made that Heat as well as Moisture should determine the biome in a tile.

            So: If the above Terrain proposal is used, then the %chance of a plague hitting a city, spreading to a city, or killing people in a city should be based upon how hot and how damp it is around the city. If this terrain system is not used, then the more swamps and jungles you've got surrounding your city, the more people are going to get plagued or die from plagues.

            However: Standing water is the worst breeding ground for disease (so long as it's hot standing water), so swamp and jungle biomes should be the worst plague tiles if the moisture+heat system is used. But, once the jungle is slashed and burned or the swamp is drained, the chance for disease is decreased substantially.

            Some social engineering choices could also affect the spread of plagues, such as Contraception (fewer STD's), Welfare State (free medical care to the poor), and Eugenics (kill the sick people so they can't get the healthy people sick).
            <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

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            • #36
              EnochF had some ideas a while back too. I've seen many but noone has put together a complete working disease model. Not that I can.

              Anyway, hospitals aren't going to have much impact on the spread of disease. Public Health measures will have a much greater effect, as they are preventitive measures (don't get disease in 1st place) as opposed to treating the diseases (i.e. AFTER infection has occurred). If Public Health is a tech advance growth rates should skyrocket once implemented.
              I'm consitently stupid- Japher
              I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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              • #37
                I think that there should be much more variation in the end-game, more than SMAC's four different goals (economic, supreme leader, conquest, and transcending) and Civilizations' two (Alpha Centauri and Conquest). This could be accomplished be introducing much more drastic random events.

                Depending on how the world looked at the begining of the end-game (around 2050-2100) The game could throw in a random event that totally changed the way you won, or tried to.

                For example you could have a giant nuclear war in a game with a lot of conventional wars already. One of the AI players would suddenly start to Nuke it's enemies and other civilizations would counter-nuke, ending in one huge nuclear war. Then if the player survived the war and the following nuclear winter the goal for the player would be to either clean up the pollution or surviving by moving to space.

                Or in a very polluted world the climate could suddenly start to act strange, with melting icecaps, frequent natural disasters and climate changes. As a result the sea-levels would rise and farm-output would be decreased by 25%-50%. As during the nuclear winter it is also here, for the player to decide how he'll survive.

                In a peaceful world, maybe even a world with a lot of research in SETI and such, the game could trigger an alien invasion and the player would have to kick the aliens off the planet, maybe co-operating with the other human nations. I don't want to see alien invasions in every single game that i play maybe just as few as a 5%-10% of the games depending on how the world looks at 2050.

                The game shouldn't necesarily end when you have survived/kicked out/colonized other planets, and it should be possible to have multiple events in one game (eg aliens arriving during a nuclear war)

                There should be lot of events that could happen, others could be:

                Meteor heading for earth (build a bruce willis wonder )

                Minor nations rising, increased minor nation/babarian and terrorist activity (in worlds with few big and several very small nations)

                Apocalypse, obtain salvation for your entire civilization by converting to the right fate(if the religious identity idea is implemented)


                The current goals (economic, conquest, diplomatic, colonizing Alpha Cenaturi etc.) should still be avalaible, but not necesarily end the game, just give a bonus to the score.

                Comment


                • #38
                  New victory condition : colonizing and terraforming Mars. Therefore a second map is needed off course.

                  Colonizing is simple. You must have a certain amount of people on Mars. Wonders like the Space Elevator, buildings like Aerospace Complex or units like Space Transport could increase emigration to Mars.

                  Terraforming will take a bit longer.
                  1) You need to bring oxygen into the Mars atmosphere. This could be simulated by collecting 200 oxygen points.
                  Every forest produces 1 oxygen per turn.
                  2) You need to decrease the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Haven't got an idea how to do that. I am no scientist.
                  3) You need to warm Mars by 50 degrees. This is necessary to make Mars warm enough for life and also to make ice fluid.
                  This could be simulated by collecting 500 warmth points.
                  Every population unit produces 1 warmth point per turn.
                  *) There should be several city(on Mars called base) improvements speeding up the terraformation. That means Mars should have different unit and building types as earth.

                  Even if it isn't your intention to win by colonizing and terrafoming Mars, you have a reason to go to Mars. Mars should be full of Minerals and Resources that can be transported to Earth.
                  Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                  Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I like westergaard's ideas that add to the endgame, which for me is always beating the crud out of the computer. I do think that they should have quite a few maps, each representing different planets. Read my posts in the space exploitation thread.
                    "And how much, my fellow warriors, can a world change in a mere 800 revolutions??!!"
                    -Shiplord Kirel, Worldwar:In the Balance

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                    • #40
                      Aliens arriving during a nuclear war?? If I landed on a planet where the inhabitants were shooting nuclear missiles at each other, I'd be out of there -- FAST!

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                      • #41
                        A new method for populaation growth.

                        The population of cities are recorded as x.xxx. This allows fractional population points. The fraction has no gameplay effect until it reaches the next number. It allows groth rates to be experesed as an increase per turn. Attacks that hit population centers can now do fractional pop. points of damage. maybe 0.1 or 0.05 per hit.

                        The purpose of this proposal is to seperate growth from straight food production.
                        Growth rates can be expressed as a percentage per turn, (eg 2.5%) to give a familiar sort of look. What this means for gameplay terms is that 0.025 pop points are added every year. This gives a groth of 40 turns.

                        Pop is recorded as fractional points, but it is easy to convert that to a real pop number.
                        The formula:
                        Actual pop = 5000 x (pop points + 0.5)^2 - 1250
                        Follows the civx model exactly for whole numbers, and can give good values for fractional numbers.

                        Effects on population growth. All numbers are arbitray and should vary depending on SE choices and tech. This system is desigend to be compatable with the idea of villages.

                        I have made use of a 'happyness rating', which is (#happy - #unhappy) / # total. This gives 0 for all content, 100 for all happy, and -100 for all unhappy. This can be applied to a city, a region, a civ or the entire world.

                        Base growth: 10%
                        Happyness : + city happyness / N. N depends on SE.
                        villages : + 0.2% per village
                        medicine : + 2%
                        etc.

                        Immigration. To take into account people moving around in your civ and between civs.
                        The advantages of including this is that large unhappy cites will tend to slow down growth or shrink, while your smaller cities will pick up the extra people.

                        In civ immigration = (city happyness - civ happyness) / Y. Y depends on SE and the overall level of transportation availabble. In cty immigation tends to have larger volume than between civs.

                        between civs migration = (city happyness - world happyness) / Z. Z depends on SE and transport of all players. For this calcualtion government types can influence the happyness used. democracy might add 10 points, while communism subtarcts 10 points, to reflect that democracies never have had problems with too many people trying to flee from them.

                        Wonder: Iron curtain. Prevents all between civ emmigration. (for gameplay all cities count as average happyness level)


                        ------------------
                        "Any technology, sufficiently advanced,
                        is indistinguishable from magic"
                        -Arthur C. Clark
                        "Any technology, sufficiently advanced,
                        is indistinguishable from magic"
                        -Arthur C. Clark

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Finally, I am wired again, back from my vacation. It is about time for a new summary, so I will set a deadline at 48 hours from now.

                          ------------------
                          The best ideas are those that can be improved.
                          Ecce Homo
                          The best ideas are those that can be improved.
                          Ecce Homo

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                          • #43
                            INTERRUPT FOR SUMMARY

                            This thread continues at http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/H...tml?date=07:23

                            Moderatores, please close this thread.
                            The best ideas are those that can be improved.
                            Ecce Homo

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                            • #44
                              That AI builds all his crappy little cities two squares apart. Is it that hard to tell the AI to build them 4 squares apart?

                              After 3 civlike games that problem still isn't solved. Strange. Unless the designers intentionally want the AI to do that...

                              Then I'm now telling them : I don't want that!
                              Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                              Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

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                              • #45
                                yin, you don't have a summary for this, do you?(please say yes) Nothing from this thread is in List 1, I believe.
                                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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