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Social Engineering and Government
Wherein we shall discuss various methods of keeping the people firmly under our heels. This is a summary of the posts in <a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000002.html">Social Engineering ver1.0</a>, <a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000070.html">Social Engineering ver1.1</a>, and <a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/000548.html">CIV3: Starting a list for social choices</a>. (Note: I haven't included any of the religious discussions in this summary, since religion has its own thread now. All future discussion on that topic should probably go there.) For more details on anything in this summary, please see the previous threads.
Sections:
1. Social Engineering Choices
2. Social Engineering Effects
3. Related Concepts
4. Issues for Discussion
Social Engineering Choices
The general consensus seems to be to move Civ to the SMAC model of social engineering. Within that broad statement . . .
Categories for social engineering: Government, Society, Economic Structure, Values, Religion, Regional Government, Army.
Government Types:
Despotism, Monarchy, Fascism, Totalitarianism, Republic, Democracy, Tribal, Dictatorship, Feudalism, Darwinistic/’Pure’ Aristocracy, Virtual (Technological True Democracy)
(Note: Choice of government type restricts your choices in other areas.)
Society Types:
Police State, Open, Corporate, IngSoc, Welfare
Economic Structures:
Barter, Currency, Manoralism, Banking, Mercantilism, Corporate, Labor Union, Communism
Values:
Knowledge, Power, Mores, Wealth, Environment, Hedonism
Regional Governments:
National, Confederacy, City-State, Independent, Regional.
Army:
Militia, Volunteer, Selective Draft, Reserve, Mandatory Service, Brainwashed, Professional, People’s Army
Individual Liberty:
Individual liberty would be an indicator of all your other settings combined. If it gets too low, your people would revolt, but if it’s too high, you would have problems enforcing your will when you take an unpopular action (like go to war or raise taxes.) This isn’t really a setting, but a gauge of your other settings.
Special Events:
These are special events that you can order which have effects on the different classes in your society. Upsetting a certain class could make it harder for you to take action in the areas they control (for instance, unhappy merchants inhibit trade.)
Crusade: increases military strength, reduces population pressure, but angers target (a foreign power).
Purge: reduces military strength and science, but pacifies masses through terror.
Enclosures: angers masses, pacifies elites.
Grant Fairs: increase taxes, pacify merchants, grows cities (but thus angers nobles)
Grant city charters: enhance city growth, anger nobles
Increase Feudal Levy: increase taxes, anger nobles
Grant Serfdom: anger populace, pacify nobles
Sell Offices: increase corruption, pacify nobles
Conscription: increase military, anger masses
Social Engineering Effects:
SE choices can have effects on the following areas:
Growth, Happiness, Economy, Gregariousness, Environment, Pride, Control, Fanaticism, Ego, Materialism, Vengeance, Curiosity, Industry, Distribution of Wealth, Corruption, Conservatism
Game Effects:
SE Effect -- Game Effect
Growth -- Rate of population growth
Happiness -- Happiness of the populace
Economy -- Tax and trade income
Gregariousness -- Maximum size of cities
Environment -- Pollution rate
Pride -- Resistance to subversion
Control -- Police
Fanaticism -- Resistance to SE change
Ego -- Modifier to foreign relations
Materialism -- Duplicate of Economy?
Vengeance -- Holding a diplomatic grudge
Curiosity -- Research rates
Conservatism -- Combination of Fanaticism and Pride?
Distribution of Wealth -- Duplicate of Happiness?
Corruption -- As in CivII
Industry -- Production rates
Morale -- Um, ah, morale
Military -- How much your military costs, as a % of normal
Supply -- Upkeep costs on your military, as a % of normal
Concepts:
<ul>[*]SE settings should have an effect on gameplay. For instance, a setting of Laisse-Faire Capitalism should prevent you from micromanaging your economy, while Communism would force you to do more tweaking to be efficient.[*] National and ethnic character: Should each Civ start with inherent pluses and minuses like in SMAC? How to assign them without starting a race war?[*] Discovery of some techs should have an immediate impact on your SE effects, i.e. plastics gives you a minus on environment.[*] Culture Points: This system separates the discovery of a society tech from its implementation. Instead, after you discover a tech you have to spend a certain number of "culture points" to actually make the change in the social engineering window. Culture points are gained automatically as time passes, through (positive) diplomatic relations, Philosophers (which are like entertainers) and Wonders. Some culture settings are available at game start. This system would require eliminating many of the Wonder effects and replacing them with a large number of culture points.[*] Depending on your regional government structure, you should be able to make a few SE choices for regions as well as the entire empire. Tax/Lux/Sci rates may also be set down to the city level, but the interface must allow you to set levels in multiple cities at once.[*] Revolutions should cause large splits in the empire. Also, if different regions have very different SE settings, this should increase the chances of a revolution. Revolutions create new civ that you are immediately at war with, but they can be reintegrated with the original civ if they surrender or ally within a given amount of time.[*] Dynasties. Every once in a while, your government destabilizes as the line of succession is debated/argued/murdered over.[*] Generals, like the officers of MoO2.[*] Civ-specific units and buildings, but instead of assigning the units to a specific civ, the first civ to discover a given tech gets them, and that tech is no longer available to other civs.[*] Preset government "templates" that set all the SE choices for you, and which you can then modify from there.[*] Laws: Laws are like SE settings, only with less effect and not mutually exclusive. They're sort of like city ordinances from SimCity. Possible laws include mandatory military service, child labor/education, legalized drugs, etc. that all have small effects on your empire. We'd need a lot of these to get it to work. Suggestions: Legalize birth control, legalize drugs, crime crackdown, institute welfare, nationalize health care, legal human testing, ban child labor, freedom of information, ethnic cleansing, free university, environmental action.[*] Economies should go through boom/bust cycles, the strength of which depends on your SE settings.[*] Contradictory SE settings should be possible, but be very difficult to play or have contradictory game effects. For example, while you could play a democratic, communist, religious state, the various pluses and minuses would average out to about zero.[*] Inertia bonuses: A civilization that consistently maintains a certain attitude (peaceful, warlike, diplomatic, etc.) would get bonuses in those categories. For instance, if you’ve spent the last 400 years at peace, you could get a science or happiness bonus.[*] Certain SE choices allow other (AI) entities to take limited control over parts of your empire. If your SE settings give the church or corporations a great deal of power, they can automatically build structures, set up trade routes, etc. These actions are not controlled by you. There are advantages to this though, like lower costs or extra happiness. These AI entities would have their own agendas, mainly building things that enhance their own power (the church builds temples, etc.) If popular opinion gets strong enough, you may be forced to change a SE setting or face revolution.[*] More government-specific units, like fanatics.[*] Ethnicity, implemented like capturing a base in SMAC, where the populace (passively) resists you until they assimilate.[*] City structures would have their effects by modifying the SE values for the city in which they’re built, instead of as % of output changes. For instance, building a library increases your research value by 1 in that city only.[*] Gradual changes: You can hit the button anytime you want to make yourself a democracy, but your people won’t necessarily listen. Game effects are delayed after you change a SE setting.[/list]
Issues for Discussion:
<ul>[*] Slavery is something nobody can seem to agree on . . . in or out, and if in, how?[*] Instead of making SE choices directly, we make them by supporting certain structures or groups, which then create pluses and minuses on their own. So, instead of picking "Police State: +2Police, -1Economy" you beef up your police and military and they eventually give you +2 Police and -1 Economy.[*] There should be more choices under each SE category . . . but we don’t know what they are![*] Slavery, as implemented in C:CTP. Good or bad?[*] Use sliders for SE settings instead of set choices?[/list]
Contributers: Zorloc, JT, anachron, Trachmyr, Ecce Homo, mhistbuff, the Octopus, Fuji the Great, Shining1, Freddz, Mark_Everson, Frank Moore, kmj, 23 Skidoo, Depp, Singularity, NotLikeTea, Armageddon, LordStone1, HolyWarrior, Lancer, primetime000, JamesJKirk, RINCEWIND_HAS_RETURNED, darkgrendel, Spartan187, wheathin, Harel, Kropotkin, Diodorus Sicilius, CormacMacArt, Stefu, Isle, Galen, Flavor Dave, Cartagia the Great, korn469, Black Dragon, SnowFire, Daniel Bistman, Bell.
<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Bell (edited June 16, 1999).]</font>
Wherein we shall discuss various methods of keeping the people firmly under our heels. This is a summary of the posts in <a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000002.html">Social Engineering ver1.0</a>, <a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000070.html">Social Engineering ver1.1</a>, and <a href="http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum6/HTML/000548.html">CIV3: Starting a list for social choices</a>. (Note: I haven't included any of the religious discussions in this summary, since religion has its own thread now. All future discussion on that topic should probably go there.) For more details on anything in this summary, please see the previous threads.
Sections:
1. Social Engineering Choices
2. Social Engineering Effects
3. Related Concepts
4. Issues for Discussion
Social Engineering Choices
The general consensus seems to be to move Civ to the SMAC model of social engineering. Within that broad statement . . .
Categories for social engineering: Government, Society, Economic Structure, Values, Religion, Regional Government, Army.
Government Types:
Despotism, Monarchy, Fascism, Totalitarianism, Republic, Democracy, Tribal, Dictatorship, Feudalism, Darwinistic/’Pure’ Aristocracy, Virtual (Technological True Democracy)
(Note: Choice of government type restricts your choices in other areas.)
Society Types:
Police State, Open, Corporate, IngSoc, Welfare
Economic Structures:
Barter, Currency, Manoralism, Banking, Mercantilism, Corporate, Labor Union, Communism
Values:
Knowledge, Power, Mores, Wealth, Environment, Hedonism
Regional Governments:
National, Confederacy, City-State, Independent, Regional.
Army:
Militia, Volunteer, Selective Draft, Reserve, Mandatory Service, Brainwashed, Professional, People’s Army
Individual Liberty:
Individual liberty would be an indicator of all your other settings combined. If it gets too low, your people would revolt, but if it’s too high, you would have problems enforcing your will when you take an unpopular action (like go to war or raise taxes.) This isn’t really a setting, but a gauge of your other settings.
Special Events:
These are special events that you can order which have effects on the different classes in your society. Upsetting a certain class could make it harder for you to take action in the areas they control (for instance, unhappy merchants inhibit trade.)
Crusade: increases military strength, reduces population pressure, but angers target (a foreign power).
Purge: reduces military strength and science, but pacifies masses through terror.
Enclosures: angers masses, pacifies elites.
Grant Fairs: increase taxes, pacify merchants, grows cities (but thus angers nobles)
Grant city charters: enhance city growth, anger nobles
Increase Feudal Levy: increase taxes, anger nobles
Grant Serfdom: anger populace, pacify nobles
Sell Offices: increase corruption, pacify nobles
Conscription: increase military, anger masses
Social Engineering Effects:
SE choices can have effects on the following areas:
Growth, Happiness, Economy, Gregariousness, Environment, Pride, Control, Fanaticism, Ego, Materialism, Vengeance, Curiosity, Industry, Distribution of Wealth, Corruption, Conservatism
Game Effects:
SE Effect -- Game Effect
Growth -- Rate of population growth
Happiness -- Happiness of the populace
Economy -- Tax and trade income
Gregariousness -- Maximum size of cities
Environment -- Pollution rate
Pride -- Resistance to subversion
Control -- Police
Fanaticism -- Resistance to SE change
Ego -- Modifier to foreign relations
Materialism -- Duplicate of Economy?
Vengeance -- Holding a diplomatic grudge
Curiosity -- Research rates
Conservatism -- Combination of Fanaticism and Pride?
Distribution of Wealth -- Duplicate of Happiness?
Corruption -- As in CivII
Industry -- Production rates
Morale -- Um, ah, morale
Military -- How much your military costs, as a % of normal
Supply -- Upkeep costs on your military, as a % of normal
Concepts:
<ul>[*]SE settings should have an effect on gameplay. For instance, a setting of Laisse-Faire Capitalism should prevent you from micromanaging your economy, while Communism would force you to do more tweaking to be efficient.[*] National and ethnic character: Should each Civ start with inherent pluses and minuses like in SMAC? How to assign them without starting a race war?[*] Discovery of some techs should have an immediate impact on your SE effects, i.e. plastics gives you a minus on environment.[*] Culture Points: This system separates the discovery of a society tech from its implementation. Instead, after you discover a tech you have to spend a certain number of "culture points" to actually make the change in the social engineering window. Culture points are gained automatically as time passes, through (positive) diplomatic relations, Philosophers (which are like entertainers) and Wonders. Some culture settings are available at game start. This system would require eliminating many of the Wonder effects and replacing them with a large number of culture points.[*] Depending on your regional government structure, you should be able to make a few SE choices for regions as well as the entire empire. Tax/Lux/Sci rates may also be set down to the city level, but the interface must allow you to set levels in multiple cities at once.[*] Revolutions should cause large splits in the empire. Also, if different regions have very different SE settings, this should increase the chances of a revolution. Revolutions create new civ that you are immediately at war with, but they can be reintegrated with the original civ if they surrender or ally within a given amount of time.[*] Dynasties. Every once in a while, your government destabilizes as the line of succession is debated/argued/murdered over.[*] Generals, like the officers of MoO2.[*] Civ-specific units and buildings, but instead of assigning the units to a specific civ, the first civ to discover a given tech gets them, and that tech is no longer available to other civs.[*] Preset government "templates" that set all the SE choices for you, and which you can then modify from there.[*] Laws: Laws are like SE settings, only with less effect and not mutually exclusive. They're sort of like city ordinances from SimCity. Possible laws include mandatory military service, child labor/education, legalized drugs, etc. that all have small effects on your empire. We'd need a lot of these to get it to work. Suggestions: Legalize birth control, legalize drugs, crime crackdown, institute welfare, nationalize health care, legal human testing, ban child labor, freedom of information, ethnic cleansing, free university, environmental action.[*] Economies should go through boom/bust cycles, the strength of which depends on your SE settings.[*] Contradictory SE settings should be possible, but be very difficult to play or have contradictory game effects. For example, while you could play a democratic, communist, religious state, the various pluses and minuses would average out to about zero.[*] Inertia bonuses: A civilization that consistently maintains a certain attitude (peaceful, warlike, diplomatic, etc.) would get bonuses in those categories. For instance, if you’ve spent the last 400 years at peace, you could get a science or happiness bonus.[*] Certain SE choices allow other (AI) entities to take limited control over parts of your empire. If your SE settings give the church or corporations a great deal of power, they can automatically build structures, set up trade routes, etc. These actions are not controlled by you. There are advantages to this though, like lower costs or extra happiness. These AI entities would have their own agendas, mainly building things that enhance their own power (the church builds temples, etc.) If popular opinion gets strong enough, you may be forced to change a SE setting or face revolution.[*] More government-specific units, like fanatics.[*] Ethnicity, implemented like capturing a base in SMAC, where the populace (passively) resists you until they assimilate.[*] City structures would have their effects by modifying the SE values for the city in which they’re built, instead of as % of output changes. For instance, building a library increases your research value by 1 in that city only.[*] Gradual changes: You can hit the button anytime you want to make yourself a democracy, but your people won’t necessarily listen. Game effects are delayed after you change a SE setting.[/list]
Issues for Discussion:
<ul>[*] Slavery is something nobody can seem to agree on . . . in or out, and if in, how?[*] Instead of making SE choices directly, we make them by supporting certain structures or groups, which then create pluses and minuses on their own. So, instead of picking "Police State: +2Police, -1Economy" you beef up your police and military and they eventually give you +2 Police and -1 Economy.[*] There should be more choices under each SE category . . . but we don’t know what they are![*] Slavery, as implemented in C:CTP. Good or bad?[*] Use sliders for SE settings instead of set choices?[/list]
Contributers: Zorloc, JT, anachron, Trachmyr, Ecce Homo, mhistbuff, the Octopus, Fuji the Great, Shining1, Freddz, Mark_Everson, Frank Moore, kmj, 23 Skidoo, Depp, Singularity, NotLikeTea, Armageddon, LordStone1, HolyWarrior, Lancer, primetime000, JamesJKirk, RINCEWIND_HAS_RETURNED, darkgrendel, Spartan187, wheathin, Harel, Kropotkin, Diodorus Sicilius, CormacMacArt, Stefu, Isle, Galen, Flavor Dave, Cartagia the Great, korn469, Black Dragon, SnowFire, Daniel Bistman, Bell.
<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Bell (edited June 16, 1999).]</font>
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