CHEATS (ver1.0): Hosted by Ming

[Depp]

Txurce: On nukes and cruise missiles being used for scouting.

These should not be a unit in the ordinary sense. I mean, you can send out a cruise missle and check what targets you can find and then hit them.

I say when you activate a cruise missle you point at what square you wanna hit and then off it goes, whatever is occupying that square it hits.

Maybe someone with more time can mention this in the unit thread.

[TCO]

Pre-worked or turbo settlers is lazy coding. Another example of a technically legal but unplanned "cheat". The work should apply to the square.

[Ming]

Good... a lot more good ideas since I checked last. I'll start putting together a new summary to post here, and on the summary page thread...
Keep those ideas coming, and thanks to all who have contributed.

(and Txurce, what cheat is that? heh heh heh)


[This message has been edited by Ming (edited May 24, 1999).]

[rainer]

This is my first post in this thread.

UNINTENDED POSSIBILITIES TO EXPLOIT THE PECULARITIES OF AI GAMEPLAY

I am not entirely sure whether this falls under the heading "cheats". I think it's very close, though: regular cheats are exploitations of loopholes in the programming of the game per se, whereas I mean exploitations of the way the programmers let the AI play the game (also, the AI thread is full of programmers' talk which sounds like Japanese for a computer-science dummy like me).

An expample:

TRIBUTE

The AI gives out money and sciences like candy on halloween. It should not be that way. Consequently, smart players almost always head for an easy win by relying on a tribute-based economy.
Solution: Significantly reduce AI's willingness to pay tribute.

Ming, please indicate if sth like this does not fit the subject of this thread.

[Ming]

rainer (and thanks for mentioning it was your first post)

Who knows where your suggestion should be placed. I too have tried to make it through the AI discussion, and some of it is a tad over my head...

I hear you, and will fit it in my section. If it is covered somewhere else, so be it. It doesn't hurt to have them hear it twice. Tribute should be paid for a reason. Not the way it is done now. Cheat, or bad programming... that's what this section is for. Thanks!

[Sieve Too]

I'm not sure if this is a cheat, but I'll post it here. Here's one I want ADDED: There should be an event option and cheat menu option to upgrade obsolete units, a la Leonardo. I'm sure scenario designers could use something like this.

[Carolus Rex]

Amen rainer!

As you said, I don't know if this belongs here but here's more of that weird AI behaviour in need of attention.

I've already posted the same things in the thread "One Vote for STRONG AI", but it's in the "Civ3-General/Suggestions" forum and I'm not sure if it has been picked up anywhere.

Here are some of the things that added together are so devastating to the AI:s war effort and the game's difficulty level in general:

A) Military issues

i) Uncoordinated attacks.

Don't let the AI attack until it has a minimum number of units ready. One at a time is way too easy to defend against.

ii) Kamikaze attacks.

Similar to i), but not identical. Destroyer after destroyer attacking the same city with a coastal fortress, catapult after catapult rolling up to the same fortress with my lethal units in it etc. Try another target or use appropriate units: if "city walls" then "howitzers" or if "coastal fortress" then "marines" (not sure about that last one, just an example).

B) "Miscellaneous" non-military malfunctions

i) The "350 shield settler" (rah's words).

If given the choice I'll rather have an AI continuing building wonders I've just finished instead of an AI switching to something else (i.e. units or improvements). Maybe some shields are wasted if a new wonder tech is far away, but it will make it more difficult to get wonders.

ii) The tribute thing brought up by rainer.

Definitely a too powerful tool, once it takes off it's game over.

Of course, there is plenty more. Feel free to add to the list (unless Ming protests)

Carolus

[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited May 25, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited May 25, 1999).]

[Ming]

Carolus Rex
I complained about all the same things in the appropriate threads... I hope it doesn't all get lost in "having a programable AI, vs just one that thinks better"
Some of what you mention can be addressed in this area... the tribute thing by rainer fits here. I will look through you list and see how I can phrase some of your suggestions to fit here. Because I agree with all of them, and it never hurts to mention it twice.

Keep e'm coming guys!!!!

[Bird]

Re: EnochF's concern about a civ's ability to destroy wonders to deny their effects to other civs. IMO this should not be prevented. It's a legitimate strategy, and if someone wants to spend the resources to do it, more power to them. Don't like it, build the wonder first. The more strategy, the better the game.

[Carolus Rex]

"That Bird can sing"

In other words, I agree.

Carolus

[yin26]

Ming,

Can you please send me your e-mail address? I'm sending my comments to Thread Masters via e-mails these days since it is much easier to do it that way now. I won't share your address with the forum, of course. Thanks.

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CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

[Travathian]

I think destroying a wonder should be considered an atrocity.

Think about it, if France decided they were just gonna tear down the Eifel Tower, dontcha think other countries might oppose it? Granted, they can do what they want, it is theirs, but I just think others might try to prevent it, or react negatively.

[Rashind]

I'll just say this - I LIKE cheats. Sometimes after a long day at work or school, it's nice to come home to civ II, turn on cheat mode, give yourself all tech and a few nukes, and just beat some civs down. I don't, however, think cheats should be normally available in game(it should always be recorded in score), or in multiplayer at all.

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"I don't claim to know all the answers. Heck, I don't even know all the questions. Hey, where am I?" - Jack Handey

[Xin Yu]

Txurce: I remember that when you quit the game and reload, the current moving AI will lose a turn. Is that what you mean of "frequent restart" cheat?

[Ming]

Ok... Let's recap the latest.
New topic... the actual cheat menu!
Sieve Too want's the ability to update units with the push of a button. Great idea... as Rashind says, sometimes he just wants to blast away after a bad day... The cheat menu is there for designers, but it's also there for people to just do what they want with the game. For the record, I don't think anybody really has a problem with the cheat menu! I would recommend they leave that feature in, expecially since it can't be used in an MP game.
Destroying wonders... good or bad. I kind of like the option to destroy one, but there should be some negative reaction by other civs as Travathian points out. I will mention this in the summary as an idea that they should consider. Again, all ideas should be passed along.
Depp raised a good solution to the old "using cruise and nuclear missiles for scouting" problem. I think there is a mixed reaction on whether this is good or bad, but I like his suggestion to have them used like paratroopers. You pick a target, and it goes there. The only problem I can see is if the way is blocked... The solution might be for the missile to come back home... or a message saying can't do... pick another target.
And Xin, that's not what he was talking about. (he was giving me grief... heh heh heh) But your answer raises another cheat... thanks!
Also, Xin and I were messing around last night to discover more cheats (you just have to love insights his into the game)
One cheat and one problem. If you disband a ship at sea in a pile, the whole pile is toast... and this doesn't happen for land units.
The cheat is a classic. If you give somebody a loaded transport at sea... they don't get the units, but they appear at the nearest shore square. This could be used to move a transport past the half way mark to the next coast, and have the units on board teleport the rest of the way... cute Xin!

Keep em coming.