CHEATS (ver1.0): Hosted by Ming

[Sten Sture]

first posting... (& good luck in your MP match this evening)

Re: cheat menu

From the cheat menu, I would like to be able to adjust game mechanics like:

shields required for units or wonders
trade/shields/food produced by specials
beakers required for advances
tax rates for govts
movement allowances for road/rail

I have no idea how programable any of this stuff would be, but it would add to the customizability of games and scenarios.

[Sten Sture]

Fair enough. My apologies, the only way I knew to change some of that stuff was in the .txt files so I never do it, maybe I just need to review the existing cheat functions before I go spouting off about what 'new' options I would like!

[Ming]

SS... no you were right... you use the txt files to make those changes, not the cheat menu. I was just agreeing that they should make it easier for us computer stupid people to do. Your suggestion of using the cheat menu is a good one... or maybe they should have a mod menu...
No apologies needed. What I was attempting to say was that you should check to see if any of the other 1000 threads is actually dealing with similar issues. I felt that if somebody was, they would appreciate your ideas and be able to put them with all the other ideas along the same line. If you can't find an appropriate thread, I would be happy to include it my summary. Sorry for any confusion...

[Josh XLII]

Re: Using missiles to patrol...

What about no movement points for missiles (allow them to be transported in ships), and have them attack like paratroopers, dropping onto any unit or city within range?

Just my 0.02...

regards,
josh

[Ming]

Sten Sture...
All the stuff you ask for can be done already. But, you raise a great point. You would like to see it be easy to do. Now, I don't know if this should be here! (but your comment to tie it into the cheat menu makes it fair game) So... see if another section would be more appropriate. If you can't find a place, let me know, and I will find a way to place in my summaries... fair deal?

[Sten Sture]

Ming - there are a ton of threads!! I've looked through some, but I haven't seen anything yet. I may post the question on the Other thread, or the Mod/Scenario but I'm thinking that it may be just an expanded game set-up option with room for some saved styles so if you are restarting you don't have to go through the routine that is required now. (that is, the routine as I have heard it to be, since I, of course, never restart - cough, cough)

[Ming]

Why Josh XLII, what an eligant solution to something I saw as a real pain in the neck.
Good Point!
Well SS... I can understand if you don't make it through all the threads... I used to go through them ALL, but that is almost impossible now. If you do decide that no place else is appropriate, just let me know and I will fit it here...
It's nice to hear that you don't use that restarting cheat, I know I never do... Heh heh heh

[Bird]

Ming: since you don't use that restart "cheat", you probably won't care for my suggestion in one of the other threads that they add a "Create New World" selection to existing games so that the process will be streamlined. Hmm, maybe this doesn't belong here, maybe I'll start a "Making Cheating Easier" thread.

[Ming]

OHHHHH! Right through the heart Bird!
But actually, that's a great idea. I'm glad you could find the right thread to put it in.
Keep up the good work... (i think)

[Sten Sture]

Bird - what thread did you post your recommendations on? Do you think it would be the right place for adjustable settings stuff?

Trading cheat...the commodity slam: sending caravans from a very small low trade city to an opponents largest trade city to sabotage their three trade routes. I can't remember if this only works against the AI or really if it works at all, but if so it should not be incorporated into CivIII.

Ming - what about AI cheats? Should we throw those into the AI thread mess, or is it sufficient to say that the AI should have to follow the exact same rules as the humans?

[Bird]

StenS: I think I posted that one on the Player Interface (or something like that) thread. If your idea doesn't belong there, you can always put it in the "Other" thread.

As for AI cheats, no matter how much they improve the AI, I suspect they'll always need some AI cheats in order to maintain game balance. There are some particularly egregious ones, though, which I think should be eliminated. For example, you should not have to worry about bombers showing up on the same turn the AI discovers advanced flight. I don't care if they hit you with 30 bombers the next turn (well, maybe that's an exaggeration), but at least let me have a turn to buy SAMs or build some fighters.

[Carolus Rex]

I would obviously prefer the AI to be as smart and ruthless as humans. Since it's not possible (yet!) I don't have a problem with AI cheats like the production advantage.

Some of them really gets to me, though. The "instant unit" brought up by Bird is one. Others are the unsinkable trireme, AI omniscience and it's unlimited supply of cruise missiles.

But where to draw the line between cheats that increase the difficulty level without reducing the fun of the game and those that do? They are all unfair in some way, but I'll rather have a more challenging game (i.e. with AI cheats) than an easy one (without AI cheats).

I never played the original Civ, but I read somewhere that the AI civs didn't actually build the wonders themselves. They were simply given to them at random. Must have been, well, "frustrating"

Carolus

[Ming]

SS We can discuss whatever we want.
In my opinion, I don't mind if the AI cheats in the build area... but I don't like bombers that never have to land, or the fact that happiness isn't really a problem for them.
But, I guess that the AI will never be good enough to really challange a good player.
Since I have to summarize this thread at the 50 post mark... a few more cheats to throw out there.

The trading of caravans to set up instant trade routes... We call this one instant teleportation.... Suggestions folks.

The ability to watch people change governments by using the chat screen and watching peoples titles change..

Using the location of your units to find other cities... (go into the city menu, click on a unit, and it will tell you the nearest city, even if you haven't found it)

The old knowing if a dark square is ocean touching land by looking at the square designation...

Are there any more folks....

[Xin Yu]

The password coding is too easy to break. Last night I just did it. By changing several hex codes (one hex for each civ) I was able to successfully cancel the passwords for all seven civs. Also, as somebody mentioned, if one saves the game as a scenario the passwords would have no use of protecting the other players. These must be changed in CIV3 or the game will be ruined by cheaters.

[Matthew]

First post

A. I disagree that the ship chain strategy is actually a cheat.

1. First of all, doing it over distance, especially with triremes, represents a huge investment of resources in shipping. One is hardly getting this benefit cheaply.

2. The ability to move by boat around the world in 1 turn, when that 1 turn represents 10 to 50 years, is hardly unrealistic.

3. If one sees movement in this game as one ground unit moving only 1 to 6 squares
a turn before railroad, or as a naval unit carrying its cargo only 3 to 6 squares in one turn, then one is baffled by such a small movement over 10 to 50 years. relative movement points can't be seen as actual, but rather are a representation of logistical problems of movement experienced in reality, wich on land can be alleviated by roads, and later by rail roads, and on the sea by the expenditure of vast resources on naval transport. That one is able to move units "railroad style" much earlier by sea than by land in Civ2 is actually reflected in reality. European powers during the age of discovery were so interrested in finding various sea routes to India and China, and fought so hard for dominance of these routes largely, if not entirely, because It was logistically far easier, and often faster, to transport large ammounts of goods by sea than it was by land.

B. I disagree that the repeat commodities trade strategy is a cheat.

1. It is hardly unrealistic that some cities will go on supplying or demanding the same commodity after having been involved in a trade transaction, while other cities will not. Different cities will vary in the size of their supply or demand, and one caravan may not be enough to exaust or fill it. This has to be represented somehow.

2. This is not an unbalancing factor in MP, as:

a. unlike other cheats other civs have definite and reasonable methods of stopping this, or at least limiting it, via blocade. This is not true of the caravan gift strategy, which is unstoppable via blocade. Also, another human civ can take advantage of the continued demand for a good by sending his or her own caravan.

b. Even against the AI this strategy is not without risk, as first of all, the AI may decide to kill your caravan layden ship at any time without warning, and secondly because the demanding city may still lose the demand in favor of another commodity, even after you have already built five now far less valuable caravans to send there. Or the AI may decide to revolt or to stick all workers on trees and unroaded plains for a few turns to build something faster, making the trade routes less valuable.

c. In either case making the most of an RTC situation still does require the expenditure of time and resources for caravan building and transport, without complete certainty of a good payoff.

<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Matthew (edited May 30, 1999).]</font>