Spies: Useless or Indispensible?

[Ephesos]

Does anyone have any ideas as to how spies can serve any strategic purpose whatsoever? I can't find any uses. To get maps, just trade with 'em. Propaganda missions are too risky. Military positions often don't help too much for a peaceful leader like myself. Investigating cities and stealing technology I can do through an embassy. Is there anything they can do?

[Verto]

Anything I want, I ask for.

If that doesn't work, I take it by force.

[Ephesos]

Yes, a valid strategy. But have you ever used spies in a game?

And by the way, is there a way to take tech through conquest (besides extorting it from your enemies during peace negotiations)? All I ever take is gold and workers.

[Verto]

There is no way to take tech by conquering a city, as you could in Civ2.

I've used espionage, but find that, for the most part, it is too cost prohibitive.

[Mazarin]

I often use that for stealing techs in late industrial/modern era: these techs usually cost more that 10k if I wanted to buy them -and only about 3k for a "safe" steal attempt...and this money does not go to my enemy and speed up his research.

[Arrian]

I almost never use spies.

I occasionally actually research espionage & build the agency just so I can plant spies and see the enemy's order of battle on the F3 screen, but that's about it.

People have posted examples of using spies to sabotage SS production in a close space race or stealing a key tech for the same purpose, though. There have been several threads about espionage... you may want to run a search and have a look at some of the older threads.

Most of us don't use spies much. I think that's an accurate statement.

-Arrian

[CerberusIV]

I do use spies but only for the F3 screen and to occasionally investigate a city in wartime.

I will only bother to investigate a city if I suspect a particularly strong defence but it is not something I do often.

For a peaceful player being able to see the F3 screen can be useful. If the Zulus on another continent threaten you or declare war but don't have any transports or warships then you know they aren't a threat. Apart from that sort of use I never bother with any of the espionage missions.

[BigDork]

Ephesos...

Check out this thread I started, it might give you some answers.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=80040

I too found that I really didn't know if the spies were worth the cost in the end. If you have any other questions just ask, the guys on this site know a lot and kick butt.

BigD

[Verto]

Thanks for the thread link.

[2manyusernames]

Also you might want to consider implementing Player1's change;
making spies of all non-communist governments veterans and selecting elite for communist governments. Makes the chance of a succesful spy attempt much higher.

[Ephesos]

making spies of all non-communist governments veterans and selecting elite for communist governments. Makes the chance of a succesful spy attempt much higher.

What do you mean by making spies elite and veteran? I thought spies weren't units in Civ III, like caravans. If this is something in the manual, I didn't find it.

Anyway, I always run short on cash after just one or two missions, and when I fail (quite often), it's always war or possibly worse (______ is displeased). Is there a way to cut costs and risks besides communism?

[Ephesos]

Oh yeah, thanks for the link. It really helps.

[Agathon]

How do you effectively plant the damn things? Almost every time I try I get caught and then have to fight a war I don't want with some demented maniac who goes all out to kill me.

[RGBVideo]

Pretty useless, with my playing style.

[Catt]

I generally only "use" them for the order of battle info on F3. Sometimes, during wartime, I might use them to investigate a few cities as potential targets. They are useful in those games (perhaps rare) when a reasonably close spacerace is underway.

I will almost never research Espionage but will trade for it (when the AI in quesiton doesn't have adequate more desireable assets), so my ability to plant spies from game to game varies considerably. And if I've played a largely peaceful game, I tend to only attempt spy planting during times of war. In not at war, I will only attemt to plant spies with the forewarning that I might start a war through the attempt.

Catt