Winning as Rome on a Huge World

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I do most (95%) of my posting at work too. I don't have Civ installed here obviously. I just visualize my games in my head. Yes, I am a sick individual.

[Arrian]

Nah, I do the same. Well, I guess that just proves I'm sick too, huh?

Ooh, I had another thought for the parity thread...

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Now, just in theory, if I go for MT while my little friends nearby are pursuing their generic paths, quite a few of them will end up with democracy, astronomy, etc. before I do. Should I just keep attacking them with my cavalry to extract these techs from them?

I'm surrounded by China, Carthage, and Babylon. Babylon is an obvious PV (Potential Victim), as they are behind in tech and underdeveloped, but I'm worried about sullying AI attitudes and hence bringing upon myself an attack by China and Carthage. Perhaps I should start attacking Carthage when I get MT... they have Gunpowder, but no Saltpeter. But they could get it shipped in...

[vmxa1]

Ok I grabbed. I was not saying anything as I figured you were on top of it. I was just watching the progress.

[Arrian]

Ack. Does China have their Riders (horses/iron)? Have they had their GA already (did they build the Great Wall, or have they fought with Riders yet)?

Gut response: stay the HELL away from China for now. Hit Babylon first, then Carthage (this assumes that hitting Babylon will bring a benifit. Do they have luxs you don't have? Would captured Bab cities be productive?). When you attack Carthage, try for an alliance with China against them. No importing saltpeter from enemies!

But that's without seeing the game.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I'm hoping China's low agression level will keep them friendly, at least long enough until I can fend them off. But they are a concern.

And those Carthaginians...

vmxa1, what does your last post mean?

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
Now, just in theory, if I go for MT while my little friends nearby are pursuing their generic paths, quite a few of them will end up with democracy, astronomy, etc. before I do. Should I just keep attacking them with my cavalry to extract these techs from them?

I'm surrounded by China, Carthage, and Babylon. Babylon is an obvious PV (Potential Victim), as they are behind in tech and underdeveloped, but I'm worried about sullying AI attitudes and hence bringing upon myself an attack by China and Carthage. Perhaps I should start attacking Carthage when I get MT... they have Gunpowder, but no Saltpeter. But they could get it shipped in...

I would like to grab Adams on a huge map, so I would do Banking and Econ. I would not be consered about an attack, as it will fail anyway and you can so some serious damage if they do.
China is not strong enough, yes the Rider can be a problem, but it will not over come Muskets in a city.
You need three techs to have Calvs, so it is not like you will get it right away.
I am not interested in getting Demo, I will either trade/buy or take it at some point. Often not until I am going for ToE. At that time I want to get all the back level techs to get only good stuff for my freebies.
If they get to Asto before me, I just trade/buy it. I usually will have super city to build the wonder, so unless they use a leader I am ok. It is not unusual to find a civ that has the tech and getting in trouble with either war or crowding and is willing to do a deal for a lux or a tech.
I do not know what they have for troops, but quick looks so you realy are better off than it would seem.
You have cash so as soon as Leos is up (if you get it), I would get those upgrades. This will deter them and let you get a better understanding of your relative strength.
I do not like all of those RoP's.
Anyway you can go after Babs, by signing an MPP (no RoP) with one of the civs they are at war with now. The Babs have no allies.
So it seems to me you are in fine shape.
If you prefe to go MT, you could do that, but I do not see a pressing need. Get Adams and then do MT.
I then do only the techs need to advance to the next age.
You are 1st in all of the key stats or 2nd, no one is stronger in troops, so no problem.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
I'm hoping China's low agression level will keep them friendly, at least long enough until I can fend them off. But they are a concern.

And those Carthaginians...

vmxa1, what does your last post mean?

Only that I have been reading your post, but figured you were in good shape.
I would say in fact that you are in good shape and know what to do. You have listed all of the options, I would say either choice will work out. Is one vastly superior to another? I can't say as I am not intimate with this particular game. I am sure that either plan will succeed.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Huh, but you would still err on the side of economics prior to getting MT, right? (vmxa1)

Me too... that's my natural inclination... but if I am to take out more than one of my neighbors before the industrial age, perhaps I should neglect it a little bit in favor of Cavalry. We'll see. I would certainly hate to see the Greeks or Carthys get it before me, that's for sure.

[Arrian]

vxma1,

Since you've looked a his game, I have a question... is he a tad bit defender-heavy? Based upon his comment in the other thread (overcoming parity), it sounds like he's got way too many defense units.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

Arrain, yes and no. I say yes as most cities have three units. No in that the overall size is not that large.
IOW if most of the inner cities where stripped down to one defender and the troops sent to the likely danger areas, then that would be fine, but I think having three spears/pikes in the inner cities is a sign of defensiveness.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
Huh, but you would still err on the side of economics prior to getting MT, right? (vmxa1)

Me too... that's my natural inclination... but if I am to take out more than one of my neighbors before the industrial age, perhaps I should neglect it a little bit in favor of Cavalry. We'll see. I would certainly hate to see the Greeks or Carthys get it before me, that's for sure.

Well it comes down to what you plan on doing real soon. If no wars are going on and you do not expect to take it to anyone, then get the money for later. Supporting larger armies and rush buys.
You have enough to defend yourself, but no real offensive units, so I am thinking no offensive wars are in the cards for awhile.
If someone wants to come after you fine, you can handle it. If you elect to go after the Babs in conjunction with the other civ, you can do that with what you have (after upgrades) and a few additions. At this stage I would be building troops some where all the time (as much as I could).
Get the tech and make a trade for the missing stuff with it and race to MT. Upgrade to calv and crank them out and crush someone.
I think I said before you could take any of these paths and be fine.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I've just about had it with f***ing Rome.

The Carths built Leo's Workshop, and having taken Egypt, they are now on a total tech and military parity with me. They even now have saltpeter.

Sure, I've got Sistine, JS Bach's, AND Sun Tzu's, but basically, I have to crush these bastards or they'll still screw me up at some point.

I'm current amassing 20 knights in a border city near Theveste (a border city of theirs, where Leo's was built). I'll attempt to take the city and hold it, while keeping my losses to a minimum. Then, if we can have peace, I'll launch my war against the Babylonians.

I know I can win. But it's so dispiriting. In fact, those Carthaginians are dispiriting in general. I have been trying new games, and always now my first goal is to find them and destroy them. Hopefully the Greeks won't be nearby.

[vmxa1]

One of the usefullness of playing games out till you win or lose is that you soon get a feel for the flow of a given setting.
You will then not get upset, as you know what to expect and the approximate time that things will change.
When a civ gives me some grief, I just think, ok when I get to this next juncture, payback time.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Well, I agree with that for the most part, but I think I made a mistake not attacking Egypt when Carthage and everyone else was. That way, I could have stopped Carthage from becoming so huge...

...so, I'll probably start a whole new game, and not repeat this mistake if it's presented to me again.

Also, I'm making much greater use of barracks very early in the game. 3 veteran archers are enough to take a Greek or Carthaginian newly-built city, at least on Regent mode, and once I've got 2 productive Roman cities, if these bastards are nearby, I'll have some archers to 'em real soon.

Of course, luxuries are key. Last night I played a game going after the Carthaginians with archers and spearmen. I defeated them, taking all 8 of their cities, but we were alone on the continent with nothing but barbarians and I saw so behind in tech (going for Monarchy, hoping to trade for the others) that this game is now at a bit of a dead-on.

I'm slowly catching on. Very slowly.