BRC's game

[ducki]

That's a good exercise, though I'm sure Dom will have some good critique.

I'd ask why is Iznik way the hell up there?
If it was a goodie hut, no biggie.

If you REXed it up there, I'd have put it either 3-squares NW of Thebes on the other side of the river or 3 squares W of Thebes, where that worker is making a road.

Also, Bursa is, IMO, a good example of where to use an early Temple for any civ, not just Religious.
I'd have placed it 1 square to the East or 1 square to the SE and use a temple to catch the Iron.

The case for 1 square SE is simply defensive - it's 1 roaded move from Thebes and forces the enemy to cross from two sides in order to avoid the river penalty.
You don't need to worry about eating the forest's extra productivity with all those hills.

The case for 1 square E is for those that hate to have those dang lakes in a city radius, especially when you've already got a river for both Commerce and Aqueducts. It also grants a defensive bonus that doesn't care where the defender is, but is not 1 move away.

[Dominae]

BRC, I haven't checked out your file yet (soon!).

Although Stuie's comment is right on, I thought I would address this point myself:

Originally posted by BRC
I don't want to start a temple debate here, but can you explain to me why they are wasteful. I can see that the shields may end up having a better use (non-religious), but I feel that a temple may be necessary in outlying cities where the lux. slider has little effect. Plus, I have a no flip streak going.

I was not trying to start another "Are Temples good?" debate. I think you took my comment out of context. What I was trying to say is this:

If you're going to use loose city spacing, you're undoubtedly going to miss out on some bonus tiles until your borders expand. Some people think this is a knock-down argument for the early Temples. But the problem is solved without Temples by simply using tighter city spacing. Thus your early queues become open to build whatever you choose, while you enjoy the benefit of all your the best tiles immediately.


Dominae

[BRC]

First Ducki:

I'd ask why is Iznik way the hell up there?

Got this in a peace treaty with the Ottomans.

Also, Bursa is, IMO, a good example of where to use an early Temple for any civ, not just Religious.

This is still an Ottoman city... we look alike.

Does it appear to be better??

[BRC]

If you're going to use loose city spacing, you're undoubtedly going to miss out on some bonus tiles until your borders expand. Some people think this is a knock-down argument for the early Temples. But the problem is solved without Temples by simply using tighter city spacing. Thus your early queues become open to build whatever you choose, while you enjoy the benefit of all your the best tiles immediately.

So this is a case of you choosing early growth, production, and commerce now. I have been playing this game to acquire as much land as possible, and that will turn into more production, population, commerce...... later on. Wider spacing allows me to get as much land with less cities used. However, I'm still able to get enough cities to be productive. Then I start hitting the AI.

I'm still geared to playing for the future.

[Dominae]

Ah, the double-post, how I love thee!

[Dominae]

BRC, given that cities cannot grow beyond size 12 until Hospitals, you will not be using many of the tiles within your borders if you go for a loose city spacing. And given that you're playing against many AIs and there is always plenty of land available (even on Archipelago maps), you cannot really deny everyone land. REX is actually a misleading term, because the idea is not just to expand, but rather to build many cities.


Dominae

[ducki]

BRC -
To me, that looks like a good tight placement, though, like I said, Dominae is likely to point out things I just don't see yet.

I would definitely plop a city in that square where the worker is building a road West of Thebes, though.
Take the worker off that tile and have him work the Wheat until a Settler shows up.
Or is that not your worker? Those colours are confusing me.

[BRC]

Ah, the double-post, how I love thee!

I finally figured out what all that +1 stuff was about.

To me, that looks like a good tight placement, though, like I said, Dominae is likely to point out things I just don't see yet.

No offense Ducki, but Dom has probably doing the whole tight city spacing thing longer. That being said, thank you. You are teaching me things.

I would definitely plop a city in that square where the worker is building a road West of Thebes, though.

Next one is probably heading there.

Thought I would post this, make it easy.

[Dominae]

Well, that's a big improvement in city placement, BRC! Very very nice.

ducki's comments about Bursa make a lot of sense, but unfortunately it is not your city. Definitely things to keep in mind, though.

Of course, I have comments of my own...I've attached a screenshot to make this easier.

1. The next city south of Thebes should go on the Tundra/Forest tile, and not on the Hills where you seem to be planning to put it. The are various reasons to do this. First, the Tundra tile is a poor tile once you getting around to chopping the forest down. Second, a city at that location gets to benefit from the Game tile, which should be chopped and irrigated ASAP. Try to have your bonus Food tiles accessible by as many cities as possible.

2. Pi-Ramesses is in an unfortunate position in that it cannot benefit from either near Cattle tiles. I cannot find any solution for this, so its current location is fine (if not...unfortunate).

3. Alexandria will have too many Coast tiles within its borders once they expand, and it is not a coastal city (this is what I mentioned above. I would put it either on tile SW or one tile NE. Each location has its benefits and drawbacks.

4. Giza should go 1 tile NW (across the River). This opens up more room to fit in a city due East of the Ivory tile. As is, the placement of cities to the South gets a bit awkward.

5. You seem to like to put rounds up to your future cities. I'm not sure how good this is myself, as I rarely do it. But what I'm sure of is that your Workers would do better chopping Forest at this point in the game. This will grow your army much quicker, and could possibly reveal some nice bonus Grassland tiles (next to Rivers, no less!).

6. This is the most important point: check your city view often! Although you cannot see it in the shot, Thebes is producing 5 extra Food, but only needs 1 to grow! This is what I mean by switching Laborers around in tightly-packed cities; you can maximize the use of your best tiles and minimaze waste.

7. Finally, this has nothing to do with city placement, but I recommend you focus on growth a little more here. There is a lot of nice land North and West that you can exploit easily. One Settler pump in Thebes is not enough; get your other cities to produce a Settler when possible. This is assuming, of course, that you have the situation with the Ottmans under control.


Again, nice improvement. By the way, from his AU203 AAR, ducki appears to have some good city placement tactics. I'm sure his advice is just as useful as mine in this regard.


Dominae

[BRC]

3. Alexandria will have too many Coast tiles within its borders once they expand, and it is not a coastal city (this is what I mentioned above. I would put it either on tile SW or one tile NE. Each location has its benefits and drawbacks.

I thought about that after I placed it.

Giza should go 1 tile NW (across the River). This opens up more room to fit in a city due East of the Ivory tile. As is, the placement of cities to the South gets a bit awkward.

I was trying to get that Ivory hooked up as quickly as possible. I guess I wasn't looking at the big picture.

This is the most important point: check your city view often! Although you cannot see it in the shot, Thebes is producing 5 extra Food, but only needs 1 to grow! This is what I mean by switching Laborers around in tightly-packed cities; you can maximize the use of your best tiles and minimaze waste.

I didn't check it for one turn, and the gov. emphasized production. I am working on getting back to normal.

Finally, this has nothing to do with city placement, but I recommend you focus on growth a little more here. There is a lot of nice land North and West that you can exploit easily. One Settler pump in Thebes is not enough; get your other cities to produce a Settler when possible. This is assuming, of course, that you have the situation with the Ottmans under control.

Assuming you mean Memphis, ok. Get another factory going.

This is assuming, of course, that you have the situation with the Ottmans under control.

What is "under control"? I can't wipe them out yet, but I can defend. Should I plan on finishing a peaceful REX or build up the military and hit 'em?

Again, nice improvement. By the way, from his AU203 AAR, ducki appears to have some good city placement tactics. I'm sure his advice is just as useful as mine in this regard.

I would trust Ducki with my kid (if I had one). BTW, how is the little booger??

[ducki]

LOL, he's fine, thanks for asking.

I took no offense, because I agree that Dominae is far more experienced than I, and I did grant that I was sure Dom would see stuff I didn't. I've learned a lot, but most of it from the 'poly pros here like Dominae.

I do tend to "shoot my mouth off" from time to time, but it's always in the spirit of learning and helping.



Back on topic - I was going to mention the Ottomans - I'd try to take or flip Bursa ASAP - simply building around it and throwing up some temples might do the trick - maybe - on the other hand, a swarm of Archers would much quicker and more reliable than trying for a culture-bomb.

If that weren't the only Iron I saw nearby, I wouldn't worry about Bursa nearly as much.

[Dominae]

I suggest you make peace with the Ottomans (if you're already in war or one is imminent), and focus on REXing some more. You should have the advantage at this point.

'Poly pro? Ha! They're all playing MP on a LAN somewhere...


Dominae

[ducki]

Just out of curiousity, BRC, do you have the 4000BC autosave on that last one?

Having never gotten very far on Emperor, I'd like to see how different it would turn out.

[BRC]

Just out of curiousity, BRC, do you have the 4000BC autosave on that last one?

Sorry, I don't. I only planned to play this game long enough to get the cities down. I don't keep autosaves either. Sorry Ducki.

However, I wouldn't mind playing a same-start game with you.

[Theseus]

If I could chime in, I think that the basic concept on tighter city spacing is that you want to be using your BEST tiles as early as possible... thus, whether due to happiness, aqueducts / rivers, or hospitals, in all likelihood you will not have the population to max out tile usage for a loooong time, and should therefore optimize your placement accordingly.