So very cold (of the map generator)

[Alkis]

Re: The Persians

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Aeson
I was dreading being pulled into this by my MPP, but Ghandi offered 4 techs and 300 gold and so I resigned the agreement.

Can you please explain this? Ghandi (India) had a MPP with you. When and why did he offered you that? Or did you mean someone else?

[dawidge]

He probably meant that twenty turns had passed and the treaty was up for renewal. He did mention that Ghandi had spent twenty turns signing various alliances, embargoes, and MPPs.

[Pythagoras]

Wow mad props!

[Aeson]

dawidge is correct. The first time around I got an ROP with India with the MPP, then 20 turns later the techs and gold. I guess it was because Ghandi was at war with so many civs that the MPP was worth more the second time around.

[Theseus]

Shai Dorsai!!

[Aeson]

Today I got a few more turns in. These I think will be the most important of the game. I was able to trade my way to 1 tech behind the leaders. I've never really been in this position before, usually I gain parity during the Middle Ages, so it was quite a learning experience.

Japan was still hanging in, but just barely. They were middle of the road tech wise, but a few ahead of me. Once they were down to 2 cities left I started funding their war effort for techs. It was somewhat of a gamble, as I gave almost all of my gold per turn, but with the odds as they were (4 vs 1 on the continent) I didn't think they could hold out much longer. It almost backfired as Japan was able to use my money to buy off 2 opponents, leaving only 2.

I also resigned my MPP with India. To get the final Japanese tech I needed about 50 more gold per turn, and India was willing to pay 77 for the MPP. I guess it's goign to be another 20 turns of nailbiting, but with the alliances set up as they are now, I should be safe. The only problem may turn out to be forced trade cutoffs or war weariness if I get pulled in for too long.

Japan was eliminated about 5 turns after I made the deals thankfully, giving me 3 techs for less than 1000 gold, and my coal and iron during those turns. Then I bought Refining for 2300 gold from India, trading it for Electricity, Communism, and Scientific Method, it was my first positive tech trade of the whole game. I had been prebuilding ToE, but there still was no chance to get it, as my best production city at the time was size 6 and producing 9 shields. The only tech anyone else has is Replaceable Parts.

I found out that I had 2 oil sources, and another source tantalizingly close in Aztec territory. Until units which use them are available I can't trade them away though. I hope to time it so that I can get to Motorized Transportation about the same time as my new empire reaches a good production capacity. With all the AI's fighting so much, there should be plenty of opportunities for my tanks. China owns most of the center of the continent, a ROP and MPP with them would allow me almost free offensives with no chance for counterattacks on my own land. That's still 7 techs off though, which should allow me to trade away all my oil the first time around.

The only problem I encountered is that one of my deals was broken inadvertantly. The Germans are at war on their own continent, and they lost one of their luxuries they were trading to me, negating my iron deal with them which I had also gotten Espionage with. Now I can only trade per turn for per turn with most of the AI's, which might be a big problem later on. Right now I don't mind as gpt deals are better for me anyways. Once I build up the mainland empire with that money, I should be able to do some of my own research from now on.

The Japanese deals I could see getting a bad rep for (and even then, it wasn't my fault they couldn't keep accepting my money ), but things like this are just silly. It was the Germans who couldn't keep up the deal. An option to continue a deal in spite of part of it being broken would be nice.

[Alkis]

I was misled by the word resigned (=abandoned). But apparently this word has another meaning (re-signed).

Anyway, it seems that you have chances now. The greatest danger, from my experience, is one civ becoming far too strong when the balance will be broken. I had a game on Deity with a terrible start where at some point I managed to catch up in technology. Then the Persians who had grown far too strong attacked me and I didn't manage to hold them. I made others declare war on them but the result was they became even stronger, winning every war and getting even more territory.

I agree with you about the deals. On the other hand you can exploit that if you don't care about your reputation (I' m sure you know how )

-

[Arrian]

Unfreakingbelieveable... except that I can SEE it unfolding before my eyes.

-Arrian

[Harovan]

Yea, and pay attention to Aesons freakin' Borg style

[dawidge]

A segue from the "Size DOES Matter" and "Appropriate city placement" threads

His placement is much like mine, more of a 3/5 hybrid. While the cities are no more than three apart from their nearest neighbor, you'll notice that he has an average of about 15 workable sectors per city (not that you can reach that on the iceberg). The resource limitations of the iceberg practically screams for a pur borg city arrangement because their growth will be stunted throughout the game. Growth on the island is driven by the few food bonus squares (game, fish, and water squares). Since I haven't gotten very far in trying to play this, yet, I think I'll restart it and go for a pure-borg approach on the iceberg. He's got 15 "home" cities on an island that can hold much more (rough guess at 20, it's hard to tell without gridlines) It will boost population growth (city centers get the +1 food) and very few of the internal sectors have the resources to grow beyond 2 population). Pack em dense to try to wring as much as possible out of it.

[Aeson]

I did think about really packing the cities together on the iceberg, but I never had much of a chance to spare any pop points early on, and later I didn't want to give up any commerce as I was just barely keeping up. The tightly packed cities I built once I got a great leader, just so I had enough to build the FP.

Looking back though, sacrificing a few pop points early on would have paid off by now.

[Aeson]

Played a lot last night, made it all the way to 1310AD.

I ended up signing a third straight MPP with India as they offered 350 gpt for it! In 60 turns with them at war with 3+ civs almost constantly, they only once got attacked on their own ground. Ghandi really can play the civs against each other...

After the third MPP was up Ghandi was out of gpt and so I cancelled it, but signed MPP's with China and the Aztecs. Motorized Transportation was coming up and I wanted to hit India hard and fast once it did. Ghandi had saved up 18k gold, so each city taken would pay off nicely. Also with a ROP from China most of his cities would be exposed to quick attacks.

It almost worked out like I'd hoped it would, but a few turns before Motorized Transportation, China attacked the Iroquois. Up till then I had stayed out of all major wars. I had to declare war on the Iroquois, so I sent a little expedition out to the Iroquois island to take their iron city. I took it with Marines and Infantry, but had no chance of holding it. So I gifted it to the Egyptians to save my remaining troops who were teleported back to my iceberg.

The Iroquois signed several alliances against me, almost everyone joined in except my MPP partners. It was a bit scary, as I had 8 or 9 Infantry and that was it.

I bought Motorized Transportation from India and then started pumping out tanks. I had saved up 16k of my own, and bought the tanks in almost all my cities every other turn. I was building about 10 tanks a turn on average.

I noticed a HUGE stack of American infantry headed my way through Chinese territory. I thought China was at war with them, but I guess not. I had to give China one of my 2 oil to get them to sign an alliance. I was hoping that the American troops would attack China instead of me, but they just kept on coming.

By the time they made it to my borders I had taken out a couple Indian cities. I forced the Americans down into the flats by building fortresses on the mountains and manning them with tanks and infantry. Most of my cities were completely empty.

Each turn my tanks would attack, usually killing 1 or 2 infantry each. Still it took me 8 or 9 turns to wipe out the stack. I kept them away from my cities by fortifying units in front of them and allowing an opening off to one side or the other. The just kept marching back and forth trying to get to my cities. I ended up getting 2 great leaders in the hundreds of battles I fought during those turns, one becoming an army, the other rushing the military academy.

I had gone into revolution about this time, as war weariness was getting really bad. My tanks from the iceberg were landed in India, and quickly took a few of their cities. I had terrible luck attacking Dehli though, losing 15 tanks in a row at one point. But my number prevailed in the end, and I razed the Indian capitol. I did catch a bit of a scare when my last oil (trading the other to China still) jumped into Indian territory. I quickly pillaged the roads to it so I wouldn't have to face any tanks, and continued my offensive to reclaim the Oil. I had barely enough tanks to take the last city necessary, losing my tank army and about 20 others. A great leader showed up though, so it was definitely worth it. My first wonder of the game will be the UN of course, not taking any chances that there will be a vote!

Then my MPP's with China and the Aztecs had run their course. I made peace with everyone but the Egyptians, who still won't talk to me. Most of them went to polite or gracious! Only Rome who I never went to war with is still annoyed with me, along with India and the Iroquois because I razed cities of theirs. It really makes no sense.

My wars were quite successful, but they would have been much more so if the American troops hadn't been able to make their way through China. Most of my tanks were held up on that stack, otherwise I could have taken out India completely, and a good chunck of someone else too. The number of wars between civs was astounding to this point. Every civ must have been at war with just about everyone else at the peak, and it's been like that for about 50 turns now.

Babylon had reached the modern era by the end of the war, and I bought the Radio to reach it myself. Then I sold the Radio and Rocketry to everyone who still had money, making most of what I spent rushing tanks back. My reputation is shot though, the MPP induced wars broke a lot of agreements. Not that it should matter now.

Now I'm just building up tanks to upgrade to modern armor. I'll probably have to launch the spaceship before I can complete any sort of conquest or domination, but I'm going to try anyways.



India: Purple
China: Light Blue
Aztecs: Blue/Green
America: Grey
Iroquois: Light Pink
Egyptians: Yellow
Rome: Red
Germany: Blue
Babylon: Dark Blue
Greece: Dark Red
French: Pink
Russians: Brown
English: Orange

[Aeson]

oops, quoted myself instead of editing

[Arrian]

Livin' and dyin' by the MPP, I see. Are the Indian cities you took useful (as in close to the FP)?

How do you intend to win? Surely you can't dominate. Has to be SS, right?

-Arrian

[Aeson]

You caught me right before the edit Arrian.

I doubt I can get a domination or conquest, but with 100-200 modern armor anything is possible. The AI's have been fighting amongst themselves enough to keep the tech rate really low for Deity, the Indians had been doing almost all the research and now they are toast.

I disbanded all the Indian cities, or razed them then rebuilt, so my cities won't flip at least. I think they are close enough to my capitol to be at least marginally productive. With all the cash I have though, most of my tanks will be made of gold.