1.17f strategy

[notyoueither]

It seems that when Soren said the AI would aggressively sell tech, he was serious.

Anybody else sense that the AI will immediately sell any tech to all available civs for what-ever it can get? That's what it seems to be to me, at first glimpse.

Oh well. It also seems to lessen the cost of buying from them, so it might be a double-edged sword.

Salve

[Ironwood]

Hey! Firaxis taught the comp to tech whore!

[Panag]

well , if the Ai is thinking that he can get a benefit in not giving the tech , he shall do so !

Also , depending on the level , the AI gets his tech's faster or slower , anyway lets not forget , unless you changed it in the editor that after 40 turns you or they get the tech anyway !!!!!


Have a nice day !!!!

[barefootbadass]

Hmm, about pop rushing, the change is good and appropriate I think, the entertainer thing would work but require a steady supply of workers which might still be worth it, but it won't be near as powerful. At least that is how it looks on paper to me, I just installed the patch.

I'll be interested to see what they did to the food box and granaries that prevents the size 6 city thing, I'd guess we'll have to settle for a worker every other turn, which will be good to leave my 10 shield cities to building more shield intensive stuff.

[notyoueither]

Ummm, OK. This is getting scary.

I am well into 2nd game with 1.17 now. Playing Emperor, standard map, 8 civs.

The world is at the early industrial age right now. Yes everyone. The AI seems to sell tech amongst themselves as soon as they get it. But that's only half of it.

---- Conversation in the Senate a few minutes ago.

Advisor: Ummm, sir, sir?

To whom I reply: *Yeah what is it?*

Did you notice sir, how Mao attacked the English until they were down to 5 or 6 cities, then gave them peace even though he could easily have finished them?

*Yeah, so?*

And then he switched to the Germans. Funny though that even though the core German cities were the easiest to get to, he has taken everything else. The Germans are down to 6 cities now, and they're fairly burnt out. What do you want to bet that Mao will make peace with Bismark in a few more turns?

*Just what are you driving at? I'm beginning to get annoyed.*

Well, just that if Mao were vassilising his neibours, he'd make peace with Bismark after taking 1 or 2 more cities, that's all.

*Vassilise? Yeah, of course that's what he's doing. Do you...? !!!!. Hmmm... errr... ahhhh... That'll leave us as his next neibour won't it. Ummhmmm. Do you happen to know were the consul responsible for armaments is right now?*

----

Have any of the rest of you noticed that the AI can tend to be much more aggressive early? In this game the Russians, on another continent, were gone during the Ancient era.

Now, by the end of the Middle Ages, 2 more are basket cases that will only survive as vassels. Have any of the rest of you noticed the AI practicing the favorite strategy of many of the human feudal lords?

Salve

[Skanky Burns]

Now that you mention it, in my current (just finished) game, the Chinese crushed the French down to 2 cities, but let them survive till the end with that many cities.

I started the game to test out how much group movement and not-always retreating affected the game, but started out as the only civ on my continent (half the land on it) and the other 3 civs on the other continent. I did not attack a single enemy during that game (excluding barbarians)

Looks like I will need a new game to test these stuff out but...

Useful strategy:
Once you discover railroads, you will likely have many workers and can put them into groups to build railways in 1 or 2 turns. In this situation you can use group movement to your advantage by moving the whole worker group to their next railroad site with one command, rather than 1 by 1.

Unfortunately, thats my only tip at this time

[notyoueither]

I have a hard time believing that there is not more to discuss about strategy changes as of 1.17f.

Maybe you're all too busy playing.

OK, here's one. The effect of rushing on the AI seems to be making the builder strategy more viable.

From examining AI civs (with the handy *multi* switch) I have observed the AIs driving themselves into the ground happiness wise. So either the AI does not pop-rush, or if it does it just ham-strings itself.

In either case the builder, who would not be likely to pop-rush very often (if ever) does not find him/herself overwhelmed in a sea of pop-rushed AI armies.

Bump

Salve

[Zachriel]

Expansionist Civs

The biggest change is in the goody huts. They now result in bigger and better prizes, including settlers. That gives expansionist civs a major advantage.

[Arrian]

Ok, after playing one game into the mid-industrial age, here are my thoughts:

Goody huts are definitely much "nicer" whether you're expansionist or not, though I would expect them to be great for exp. tribes.

IMHO, however, the biggest change is the AI tech trading. They trade techs immediately to each other at low cost (not for nothing, I've seen dirt poor AI's fall way behind). Though I found this VERY frustrating, I found that buying or trading for tech from the AI was pretty cheap too.

Tech advancement is much faster... I think the first AI hit the Industrial Age right around 1000AD (Normal/Continents/8civs - Monarch). That's pretty quick, but what really threw me was that they got there before me. I have a successful game going, and pre-patch that would have meant a substantial tech lead going into the Industrial Age. Instead, I traded for and/or bought a couple of techs, including nationalism and military tradition!!.

I think I may have made a mistake early on in not selling any tech where I had an advantage - trying to hold my lead. Once I got Steam Power before the AI, I sold it (only 2 or 3 AI's paid top dollar, the rest offered me 30gold/world map, or even nothing at all for it once I'd traded it). I then sold medicine. Then I sold something else. NOW, finally, I have a tech lead. It's not much, but it will do. So, basically, trade like crazy. Beelining is more important now. And keep in mind that one luxury trade can net you two or even three techs you've ignored.

-Arrian

[Selkirk]

I also notice that post-patch the AI seems better at upgrading units. I was in a late age war and the computer landed a transport full of tanks behind my lines and managed to raze one of my cities. Pre-patch, I think the transport would have only had 1 or 2 tanks, or would have had a archers mixed in. In the whole war, I didn't see any units more obsolete than cavalry.

I also think the computer might be a little more aggressive, or might be more accurately calculating power. (Perhaps accounting for obsolete units?)

Overall, I think the AI changes are good. I tried playing a couple of games on deity and got my ass kicked and had to drop down to emperor. (I was playing all my games on deity pre-patch).

[Arrian]

Selkirk,

I hope you're right about that. Many posters have mentioned that the AI wasn't upgrading properly. My (limited to one game) experience thus far isn't conclusive:

I was invaded by Greece (my nice, friendly trading partner with an active RoP agreement). Alex sent in a couple of riflemen, a horseman, 3 swordsmen, a longbowman, and a Cavalry. Sounds like the old non-upgrading AI. But then I went on the offensive and ran into cities with nothing but Infantry in them, with Cavalry counterattacking (until I cut his saltpeter, horses, iron and rubber). I had to slug it out with artillery bombardment followed by Cavalry charges... many of which ended badly. I won, but it hurt. So it does look like the AI upgraded its city garrisons. The first few defenders (2 or 3) were regular or even vets, with draftees underneath.

-Arrian

[DrSpike]

Well I thought I'd miss out tourney 6 and instead play a post-patch deity game. I chose the Egyptians, because since 1.07 I prefer to consolidate a bit then rush rather than rush a la Randomturn's vassalisation strat. I haven't played as the Egyptians before, and since 1.17f will have less early rushing I thought the cheap chariot would serve me well. I'm soon going to get chance to see, as the Romans are between me and all the other civs within reach. Furthermore they are being really tight. The AI never gives anything away on deity but they wont even sell me their original techs for 150 gold, and it's about 1000BC. They also wont sell any communications for 150 gold, and that's all I've got. The new tech trading is in evidence though, they have loads more techs than I do, but I thought the idea was that they were more aggresive trading with the player as well. I can see why some people are suggesting that there is a "me V the AI feeling".

Tonight onward with the war against the tight-assed Romans.

[Aeson]

The AI certainly gives better deals to other AI than to the player. I was just running through a couple ancient era games to test openings without any pop rushing, and consistantly the AI would trade away Techs to other AI for close to nothing, while charging me at least several hundred gold for each. In one case the Egyptians wanted my world map (worth ~400 gold at the time if I wanted to sell it) and 700 gold for Construction. They had just traded it to the Persians for 5 gold total. I passed on the "deal" and got construction from a hut for free a couple turns later. Now my stacks of Impi are taking revenge on both AI, keeping either of them from ever getting a road to Iron... teach them to try and rip me off. Like all the other shady AI practices, it just gives me a motive for otherwise senseless violence

[Ironikinit]

Has anyone noticed a change to how the Theory of Evolution works? I got the tech I was researching and then could choose the second one.

[Arrian]

Yeah, it's now working like Darwin's did in Civ II. If you discover a tech 3 turns before ToE is to be completed, just shut science off, rake in cash, and then go full science once it's done. I didn't realize it had been changed, so I left my research rate alone and wasted 2 turns at 70% science. Doh.

-Arrian