Wonders that are too powerful? Not powerful enough?

[monkspider]

I think Sid and the gang have done a wizard job of keeping this game for the most part well balanced, with that applying to wonders as well. I don't think there are any that are TOO powerful, but I will list what I find to be the key wonders to this game after a few play-throughs, as well as the ones that I don't find to be powerful enough. Perhaps suggestions can be made for possible modifications with the editor to balace things out.

The Cream of the Crop
Pyramids
Art of War
Hoover Dam
Sistine Chapel
Universal Suffrage (under the right circumstances of course

Not powerful enough?
Shakespeare's Theatre- Seems to be stuck in the Civ 2 world of City states producing independent units. Probably the worst wonder in the game.
Lighthouse- Expires too soon, has a relativily negligible effect anyway, plus you can only build it coastal cities.
Longevity- Good Culture rating, but by the time it is available your cities have pretty much reached max-population anyway.
Cure for Cancer- I always liked the concept of this wonder, but actually making this wonder LESS powerful than the Civ 2 equivalent makes no sense (1 happy citazen in every city in Civ 2, compared to now only one less discontent citazen).
United Nations- I have found myself dislikign the Diplomatic victory as it seems so abrupt and arbitrary. So what good is this wonder with Diplomatic victory turned off? It needs to do SOMETHING else.
Great Library- This one is debatable I suppose, It is a great souce of culture but it just expires SOO early.

[Mnus]

Defenetly agree with you on shakespeares theatre. I never even built it in the previous versions......

I kinda like Cure for Cancer. Practically a temple in every city, minus the culture, and minus the upkeep. Besides, this late in the game I typically have so much surplus production it's nice to build whatever I can get.

I've always loved the suffrage.....I almost always play as repub/democracy, even in the previous versions. Building was always a crucial part of my strat.

[Roswell]

Longevity: Now those cities stuck in a growth/starvation cycle can starve for twice as long! And since at the point you can build the wonder, jsut about every city is either in equilibrium or in that cycle... Kiss those WLTKD's goodbye.

[Faeelin]

What this game needs

Is an additional age. That way things like the cure for cancer culture can be more useful. perhaps even two more ages. If we had a WORKING EDITOR we could do it.

[monkspider]

Good posts folks, I think Anunikoba may be in the process of addressing the UN issue at least in his mod. Let's wish him luck!

[Trachmyr]

The UN is just the most awful winder... the diplomatic victory in this game is so pitiful I think they would of been better off omitting it... I've already edited the UN to give the effect of the Great Library and REMOVED the diplomatic victory.

The Longevity wonder has serious problems... if it were changed so that pop growth was 2 ONLY if the city will have enough food to support it, it would be ok.

As for the lighthouse, I changed it so it doesn't give the +1 move but does give an extra 50% tax (extra trade) and dosen't expire.

Also theroy of evolution seems to have a bug that if you don't have enough unreaserched tech available w/o progressing to the modern age, you don't get both (or any) techs.

Shakespear's Theater needs to be tweaked as well.

[Skanky Burns]

How about the Manhattan project.

Not only does it allow every other civ to build nukes, but the nukes themselves are rather on the weak side.

[Sava]

I disagree with your take on the Lighthouse and The Great Library.

The Lighthouse stays active for about half the game. It gives +1 to naval movement and allows Galleys to go on sea squares. This is very helpful if you are playing on continents and are trying to conquer the world early on. You don't have to wait for Galleons to start sending troops abroad.

The Great Library is also important. I don't even bother to research Philosophy or the Republic. But the AI's do, and then they trade them. Also, if you are rushing a lot of units under Monarchy, you are using up cash. To get cash, you reduce your science rate. In reducing the science rate, you can fall behind in discovering techs. The Great Library keeps you on the same level as the AI's. And you don't have to pay 200 gold for an advance.

Aside from that, the culture bonuses are worth the effort as well. If you stack every wonder in one city, you will get a culture victory in the modern age, guaranteed, even if you aren't trying for it. I was in the midst of finishing off the last Civ in a conquer the world game and I got a culture victory. I was mopping up little surviving cities which was taking forever, but by building the wonders early on, I clinched a culture victory late in the game.

[mcaber]

With Civ II I missed the cultural benefits with wonders. I thought that a colossus for example is such a landmark and something that people would travel to see, like the Eiffel Tower is today. Still all benefits expire with flight and this wondrous probably a couple of thousands year old legacy of the ancient world isn´t worth s**t.

Now wonders also give culture, which is cool. Hence all wonders are cool!

P.S. The pyramids was a must have in Civ II but I don´t really see the value in Civ III?

[Enigma]

The great library is my favorite wonder! Massive culture, and it can give you a ton of techs. If you manage to get this on the higher difficulty levels you = winner, use a great leader if you have to, it is VERY valuable.

Expires early but it will make up for it by then.

[Transcend]

I don't think Shakespear's Theater is too awful. If you are going for a Cultural Victory, it's a great Wonder to have it for yourself and to deny it to your enemy.

[Growler]

Iron Works is hard to get

Iron Works requires both coal and iron within the city radius of the same city. Tough to arrange because no one knows where the iron and coal are when cities are being settled. :/

[HalfLotus]

What about the sorry ass Great Wall. It improves your city walls, which only work for city pop. 6 or less. Even then the wall gives 100% bonus, not outstanding.
And bonus against barbarians. Boo.

Enigma: How often do you get a great leader in time to rush the G. Library?

[monkspider]

Good one half lotus, I was meaning to put that one on as well
The Great Wall is far too weak. It really needs to be able to do SOMETHING else. Plus it even expires!
mcaber- How ironic! I never found the pyramids useful in Civ 2, but I find them essential in Civ 3! I think that you are more able to cope with the rapid growth in Civ 3 than in Civ 2, or at least that is my initial impression.
Enigma/Soul Assassin- Okay you guys won me over, I was a little hesistant to put Great Library on the list of excessively weak wonders anyway, but you guys make a good case.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Top 6 Great Wonders
-Sistine Chapel
-Corpernicus' Observatory
-Bach's Cathedral
-Isaac Newton's University
-SETI Program
-Hoover Dam

Top 6 Minor Wonders
-Forbidden Palace
-Iron Works
-SDI
-Battlefield Medicine
-Intelligence Agency
-Wall Street

Your civ should have a production city (iron works. this is pure luck if you get it and a science city (put C's Observatory, N's university, SETI, and maybe collosus if you have the time.)