Anyone want to beta test the new Conquests civs/UUs with me?

[Dominae]

Now that I've got you in here, let me explain what I mean (no, I'm not a beta tester for Conquests, sorry):

There's a lot of discussion going around on the net as to what the new civs will be, specifically their trait combination and their UU. Everyone has their guesses, and some of them make a lot of sense. For instance, I'm betting the Incans will look like this:

Traits: Industrious/Expansionist
UU: Incan Scout, 0/0/1 treat all terrain as Roads

(If you're thinking that this UU is too good, consider that the Incans cannot trigger a GA with it, just like the Americans.)

So here's the idea: 1) we come up with a list of "best guesses" for all the new civs, 2) we create a mod/scenario with all these new civs added in (clearly a requirement for each new UU is that it can be created through the current PTW editor), 3) we play out the game, testing out these new civs before we even purchase a copy of Conquests.

Obviously we'll miss out on the cool new animations for the leader-heads, and we'll have to reuse old UU anims for each of our new variants (just like alexman did in the "Gallic Glory" AU, where stock Civ3 players played with "Gallic Swordsmen" which were nothing more than modded Jaguar Warriors).

Also, a lot depends on how good our info is on the Conquests civs and their UUs. Then again, it's not like we lose anything if we're wrong.

It would be cool to make this an AU course. It would be a chance to try something new to everyone, and we could discuss the viability of the theoretical new units afterwards.

Does this sound like a good idea to anyone (other than me!)?


Dominae

[notyoueither]

It sounds like a great idea. Too bad I can't participate.

[Dominae]

Too bad I can't participate.

True. Then again, you get to do the same thing...with the real thing!


Dominae

[Konquest02]

I'd like to do that... I don't know about any guesses though... But I will surely play!

[nbarclay]

An Incan Scout UU such as you describe would make the Incas vastly superior to the Americans. The Golden Age situation would be at best only marginally better for America (which can probably trigger a GA shooting down enemy bombers on air intercept missions if nothing else, but I've never actually tested that), and the advantage of the Incan Scout over regular scouts would be immense. Consider, especially, that Incan Scouts could move along the tops of hills and mountains to get a better view, while conventional scouts often have to choose between speed and vision.

[Dominae]

I knew someone was going to disagree with the Incan Scout I presented! I purposefully presented my version as a little powerful because: 1) I knew it would catch people's attention, and 2) I'm expecting many of the UUs in Conquests to be rather powerful (sort of like in the expansion to SMAC, although not quite so drastic).

The point here is not to get hung up on any specific version of the new units. Obviously some of them will be "wrong", and maybe slightly unbalanced. We're not all game designers. If we fall into endless debate about this, we'll miss our shot at a good thing.

How would you guys design the Incan Scout? 0/0/3 is pretty boring, no?


Dominae

[nbarclay]

If I were doing it, I'd go with 0/1/2, treats all terrain as grassland. That way the unit has at least some potential to trigger a GA on defense (and can defend itself against wandering barbarians, unlike the standard scout), but the lack of offense keeps it from becoming an expansionist version of the Jaguar Warrior. The speed advantage over rugged terrain plus the ability to defend against barbs would make it nice but not overwhelming.

0.0.2, treats all terrain as grassland, and 0/0/3 without other advantages seem like the more conventional prime possibilities to me.

[sabrewolf]

ultra early GA sucks imho, so i'd prefer no defence but more movement ;-)

[CerberusIV]

Incas were mountain people, yes? How about 0.0.2 but hills and mountains as clear?

I think the idea of trying to second guess the designers and try out some stuff that might be in Conquests could be fun.

Trebuchet - with Feudalism and 6.1.1 bombardment, 30 shields but no resource requirement? That way it would be better than catapults, not as good as cannon but still worthwhile if you don't have saltpeter.

[FrustratedPoet]

According to the latest batch of screenshots the Inca Scout appears to be 1/1/1. I assume it treats all terrain as grassland/roads or something to differentiate it from a normal warrior.

Also, the Hittite UU is a variation on the chariot - no stats in the screenie though.

This post has a link: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...37#post2150637

[Jon Shafer]

Don't worry, we'll balance them out so you don't have to.

[PeaSoup]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
According to the latest batch of screenshots the Inca Scout appears to be 1/1/1. I assume it treats all terrain as grassland/roads or something to differentiate it from a normal warrior.

I'm going to assume that it treats all terrain as roads. Having only one move, I don't think all terrain as grassland will help it any.

[FrustratedPoet]

Good point.

me =

[PeaSoup]

I wonder how much the inca scout will cost to build.

20 shields perhaps? It has the 1A and 1D that the regular scout doesn't have, but if it costs twice as much as a scout.. that means you won't be able to cover as much ground with one inca scout compared to 2 normal scounts.

2 scouts = 4 potential tile movements in different directions
1 inca scout = 3 tile movements in one direction

there is of course, a difference in unit upkeep

but with an attack and defense rating, the inca scout has other uses when the map has been revealed and civs contacted. I wonder if you can use it as MP for your cities.

so, assuming that it costs 20 shields and you can use it to attack/defend + MP, which scout is better? is the inca scout overpowered?

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by PeaSoup
1 inca scout = 3 tile movements in one direction

*SNIP*

so, assuming that it costs 20 shields and you can use it to attack/defend + MP, which scout is better? is the inca scout overpowered?

So this makes the Inca Scout effectively 1/1/3

The Aztec Jaguar Warrior is 1/1/2 and only costs 10 shields. It's a good UU, but not considered over-powered.

If the Inca Scout is 20 shields it wil equate to paying 10 shields for an extra movement point over the JagWarrior. That doesn't sound unbalancing to me.