Civ-specific strategy: Germans

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Ok, let's get the ball rolling. The basic point of this thread is to explore the various ways the human player can best use the Germans to win, under any victory conditions.

The first question is, what to do with the Germans in the early game?

If you are playing against few civs, the answer to me seems obvious: take out your neighbors with an archer rush. That keeps 'em good and crippled, and maybe you can wipe them out and pull an "Arrian's Deception".

But what if you're surrounded by swarming expansionists? How do you keep up with tech? REXing? Culture?

Basically, I'd like everyone's input on their first moves as the Germans, what land they hope they find or can live with, what wonders/improvements they aim for, the amount of military activity prior to the medival era and the basic approach towards Germany's neighbors.

On a huge map with max # of civs, my early warfare has consistently failed. It's bogged me down in terms of development and I remain outstripped in research and culture. Also, my warfare is effective but not effective -enough-. So I'd like some pointers.

[Arrian]

One word: Archers.

I'm just finishing up a great game as Germany, actually.

Lots of ultra-early archer wars (not conquest, but harrassment & trying for GLs) followed by continent-cleansing mounted rush. Long build phase... and now I have Panzers.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

BUT... how to deal with the war weariness? Ok, I guess war weariness is not an issue if you wait 20 turns to reattack.

How many archers with how many accompanying spearmen?

Who is your first victim?

[Arrian]

Lots of ultra-early archer wars...

Note the words "ultra" and "early." In other words, long before republic is even available.

Second, I think you may need to stop assuming that republic is always the best choice. In my game, I did go the republic route and was able to deal with WW via luxuries, the luxury slider, and my ability to wipe a civ out quickly if I needed to (though I didn't really want to, more leaders if I take my time).

First victim? Well, I guess the first civ whose settler team steps in front of my archer.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Huh.

I assume you mean "stop assuming Monarchy is the best choice" (that's what I have been assuming).

How do you cope with being surrounded by, say, 5 expanionists? Attack their scouts when you see 'em?

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Arrian
One word: Archers.

I'm just finishing up a great game as Germany, actually.

Lots of ultra-early archer wars (not conquest, but harrassment & trying for GLs) followed by continent-cleansing mounted rush. Long build phase... and now I have Panzers.

-Arrian

When I saw this thread I was already thinking what was the first thing I was going to say, and it was precisely that: "One word: Archers".

Germans are THE archer rush civ par-excellance. Be prepared from some very quick early warmongering, hopefully allowing you some breathing space so you can expand easily.

My other advice is to take advantage of those cheap libraries for cultural/science reasons. You'll need them. I'm starting to like scientific civs more and more just because of the cheap libraries...

[Dominae]

Given that I almost never use Spearmen in my Archer rushes, my vote is for China as the best Archer-rush civ. Sure, it's sometimes useful to have a Spearmen defending your stack when assaulting the enemy capital, but that pales in comparison to the speed of industriousness (Archer rush!).

Of course, Industrious makes everything better and is better than everything, so why am I even arguing?


Dominae

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I have found that my neighbors are cautious or annoyed right off the bat, before I do anything, when playing as the Germans. Why is this? Is it because of Germany's aggression level (even when I'm being passive, not agressive)?

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Dominae
Given that I almost never use Spearmen in my Archer rushes, my vote is for China as the best Archer-rush civ. Sure, it's sometimes useful to have a Spearmen defending your stack when assaulting the enemy capital, but that pales in comparison to the speed of industriousness (Archer rush!).

Well I'd have to agree with you there. How to properly do it as the backwards Germans though?

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
How to properly do it as the backwards Germans though?

The key to the Germans is that they have early access to all the Ancient age "war toys", except for Horsemen. With Iron Working one tech away, you can see Iron quickly and plan your warmongering in consequence. Thus, although the Germans are fine at Archer rushes, their true power lies in being able to select between this avenue or Swordsmen (probably via upgrades). The fact that Spearmen are also available from turn one is a nice effect, too. So, you can either push hard with Archers (if they look like they'll do some damage), or wait for Swordsmen and do some real conquest. Other Scientific civs have this option too if they research Warrior Code first, but that seems sort of weird if you ask me, mainly because they do not get cheap Barracks(or faster upgrades) like Germany, so any "rush" is actually a big investment.

Note that none of the units Germany has access to in the early-game trigger its GA. Compare this to, say, the Persians, which need to be a lot more focused if they are to be used "properly".


Dominae

[Arrian]

I totally agree that China is the best pure archer rush civ, and that Germany's main advantages are spearmen right away and, more importantly, their ability to get IW right off the bat.

Germany has some flexibility with their GA. In my game, I triggered it via buiding (errr, rushing) Sun Tzu, after having built (err, rushed) the Great Library.

But w/o the Library, one could wait for Newton's. Or wait for Panzers, but I think that's a bit late.

-Arrian

[Jon Shafer]

After Archer fun is done, I usually like to produce about 30 Horsemen and race across the continent in caravan-joyrides.

[Ubergeek]

I've never met with any success with Germany at all. I play Huge maps, max civs, and by the time the civs have grown close enough together to have foot units be effective combattants, everybody has spearmen/swordsmen/horsemen. Is an archer rush still effective in a climate like that? I've never tried one (except very rarely when I start within a dozen or so spaces of an enemy capital) because it looks suicidal to me.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Ubergeek
I've never met with any success with Germany at all. I play Huge maps, max civs, and by the time the civs have grown close enough together to have foot units be effective combattants, everybody has spearmen/swordsmen/horsemen. Is an archer rush still effective in a climate like that? I've never tried one (except very rarely when I start within a dozen or so spaces of an enemy capital) because it looks suicidal to me.

This has been my experience as well. I've recently started up and then abandoned 3 or 4 games in which I took out the Russians, or the Celts, or the English, with archer rushes and later horsemen, but I end up with so much bad blood against me that it was hardly worth it...

...I intend to try swordsmen conquest next. I haven't had an all-swordsmen war in a long time. I seem to have had ill luck procuring iron as the Germans, for some reason, recently.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Build Queue

What do you start building right off the bat? I know the answer will be different depending on the number of neighbors, so let's assume anywhere from 2 to 6 or more.

For an archer rush, would you build warrior-barracks-archer-archer-etc., or warrior-archer-archer-barracks? Where do settlers and workers get thrown in?

Assuming you're waiting for IW or HR to get your war on, what do you build first?