Enemies. Does AI "Remember"?

[dexters]

If two AI civs go to war in the past, will the loser potentially try to get revenge in the future? Do they remember these things? or is it just that they just stay furious at each other and by default raising the chance of going to war in the future?

Same applies to how AI treats human players.

[Agathon]

Well the AI tells me it remembers my dastardly actions in the past.

I often get messages like, "No way will I sign right of passage with you Agathon, I remember what you did to the poor French, Germans, Americans, etc.

[Solver]

Actually, it's sometimes ridicilous. Sure, I mistreated Japan badly in my game, but I killed them way in BC with Swordsmen. Currently it's Industrial Age, and still noone signs RoP with me because they remember Japan...

[dexters]

Hmm... interesting. I'm asking because of something related.

I've been helping Japan in my game for a good 50+ turns when India declared war on it. To maintain the balance of power and slingshot into the lead, I used the war to help contain India. I invaded India itself and helped liberate Japanese cities, and gave it to the Japanese.

All the while I was giving substantial gold aid to them to help them maintain their forces.

50 turns after giving the last Japanese city to Japan, I can't say the AI Japanese civ remembers. It doesn't mention my deeds, nor is it reflected in its attitude. In fact, at one point, their attitude towards me waffled from polite to cautious.

I suppose this is more of a limitaiton of a lack of the AI's capacity to show gratitude as they never seem to offer me any gold or give me back my cities. Have any of you experienced AI doing anything good to you?

[Jaybe]

The current "authority" on the subject is CFC's War Academy: AI Attitude Exposed.

[dexters]

I'm aware of the attitude article. Thanks. But I'm just wondering if there are additional subroutines behind the AI to help it manage hostility and friendship. That doesn't appear to be the case. :/

[Chemical Ollie]

I have stopped paying attention to my reputation, because in the end, they are just barbarians anyway. It doesn't matter how much you humiliate yourself to flatter them, they will eventually stab your back. They will hate you for anything. Computers are stupid, human are smart.

[TheArsenal]

CFC is blocked from this computer, so I can't read that article But ... the AI seems to have a pretty long unforgiving memory if the advisor is any indication. My AI advisor will routinely, and throughout the entirety of the game, tell me something along the lines the Ottomans betrayed "our friends" the English when the English nation died on my sword some hundreds of years back, and the Ottomans and I have been dealing and trading peacefully for some years as well.

[badams52]

Originally posted by Solver
Actually, it's sometimes ridicilous. Sure, I mistreated Japan badly in my game, but I killed them way in BC with Swordsmen. Currently it's Industrial Age, and still noone signs RoP with me because they remember Japan...

should we tell him about the "Arrian Deception."

Answer to the first Q:

I'm not sure if the AI vs. AI is treated in the same way as Human vs. AI. That is to say when the AI performs ROP rape (damn those Persians) I don't think he gets the same penalty of not being able to sign an ROP with any other civ for the rest of the game.

Originally posted by dexters
But I'm just wondering if there are additional subroutines behind the AI to help it manage hostility and friendship.

There's also a thing called aggressiveness which is why Germany, Russia, etc. like to declare war more often than other AIs. There are probably other factors what we don't know about as well.

[Jon Shafer]

Yes. The AI is silly like that.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by dexters
Have any of you experienced AI doing anything good to you?

Never - and nor has anyone else, I'll bet. The nicest thing this AI can do is not stab you in the back.

Once I turned off all victory conditions except Diplomatic, just to see if the AI had any capacity for making friends and influencing people, but if anything it was more aggressive than ever. Even India was going around starting fights everywhere, as if the way to win at the UN is to have no other voters.

We know that the AI's don't penalise each other for ROP-rape like they do with humans, and Arrian has suggested that it would cripple the AI if it did.

They do punish each other in the UN vote though. I played peacenik Pangea-Monarch diplowins with each of the original 16 civs, usually winning every neutral vote except those who attacked me recently, those who got firmly punished for attacking me in the past, and occasionaly those in an alliance with the UN rival.

My strategy was based on 'let them bash each others heads so they hate each other and they'll all vote for me". It worked.

[Agathon]

I managed to have the French onside for 500 years. I gave them a bit of gold and a worker (someone else's that I'd stolen) occasionally and helped them out with techs and helped them in a couple of wars. You are supposed to help your friends and if you do it enough you can have a useful ally.

You would have thought that Joan of Arc would have gladly performed degrading sex acts on me from the nice things she said every time I called the French (that baldy lesbian militarist look put me off though )

[Nakar Gabab]

Funny story, Agathon, as I've had a very similar experience under VERY different circumstances. I had been annoyed with (and apparently mutally so) the Germans for thousands of years in a game I was playing about a year ago. We were well into the Modern Age, when suddenly Germany asks me for a MPP and ROP agreement. Normally I'd refuse ANY such offer, but Germany was on the other side of the world and we were both the most powerful civs (out of about 6 remaining).

Well, I was getting bored, so I launched several ICBMs at India for no particular reason, and invaded with MA to clean up. The nuke launch, as I expected, got everyone pissed - EXCEPT GERMANY. They happily waited for the counterattacks to draw them into war and merrily joined me in blowing away every stitch of opposition on the continent (well, until I finished the spaceship) without complaint, betrayal, or protest.

I've never seen Bismarck so happy, friendly, and open. I guess it's true what they say about the enemy of my enemy...

[dexters]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


We know that the AI's don't penalise each other for ROP-rape like they do with humans, and Arrian has suggested that it would cripple the AI if it did.

I thought the AI don't know who the human player is? or is this a myth?

[TheArsenal]

Originally posted by dexters
Have any of you experienced AI doing anything good to you?

Not so much. But that might be due to the way I interact with the AI. It would have no reason to do me any favors.

But in its favor, an AI which is allied with me in a war, will definitely step up and take its share of the battle. And I have, on several occasions, had an AI give the APPEARANCE of vigorously defending the one of my cities (alone on another continent) wedged between it and the hostile civ. And it will do things like throw archers against tanks to give the APPEARANCE of distracting the hostile from focusing its fire power on my city. I have to say, this is an aspect of the AI that I am extremely pleased with.

Now, if I could only get it to stop bombarding an enemy city's improvements when I have the situation in hand and am about to take that city, and WANT those improvements.