Overcoming Parity in the Medival Age

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Ok world...

I haven't had time to read the entirety of all 3 AU threads, but I pledge to.

In the meantime, I am going to start a thread for the "preliminary discussion" of whether or not there even should be a huge map AU thread.

Please check it out, and post your comments and thoughts. I shall title it "Huge Map AU: Preliminary Thoughts."

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by yxhuvud
Master Zen: It is quite possible to beat deity bybeing peaceful if you have a little luck. Just let the AI's attack each other instead of you

I had a game where I had neither iron or horses, and thus had almost no way to do an effective invasion early game. But since all the other civs was in war with eachother from 700AD until it ended ~1800AD, with me never had been in any war, I was able to grab (well, conquer, aqtually), the UN and win diplomatic victory

You just said it luck! LOTS OF IT. Although I assume there was pretty skillful diplomatic handling on your part too.

[minke19104]

wow that's like 1100 years of war..... crazy game there...

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Alright, this is a topic-related question:

How do you earn the amount of money you need to build the 25-30 galleons, or whatever, you need to cross overseas?

Do you not build certain improvements, like universities, or something?

I simply don't understand, and I'm not that stupid. I cannot arrange truly lucrative luxury trades until the industrial era (when I can pull down between 20-80 gpt for a luxury or strategic resource). Hence, I don't tend to make a grotesque amount of gpt during the medival era.

How are you people doing it?!?

[minke19104]

Marketplace + Banks + Adam Smith will nest you good amount of gold. Oh and the Colossus also ..

But you get the most money from selling techs. It isn't too hard really. You need to constantly sell your techs off. At first the most they'll pay is prolly around 20 gpt. But after a while, they start to depend on you for tech. Sell for the biggest bidder first, then the rest. Dont let other civs buy the tech from him/her.

You also need libraries and universities for research. There are awesome threads around about tech dealing and brokerage. Try the must read threads...

Make a super duper science city. Find a city close to capital/FP with coastal area. Make SURE you get the Colossus early for the added commerce bonus to every worked square. Try to get either or all Copernicus/Newtons/SETI wonder. Of course library, univ, research labs are good. Put marketplace, banks, harbor, stock exchange, Commercial Harbor in it also. And whatever other ppl may say, Commercial Harbor and Colossus benefits do stack, giving you crazy amount of money for science.

In my current game, my Super Duper Science City produces 356 something science per turn with 20 citizens and all the stuff I wrote above.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Even sell your techs to civs that are far behind you, and have luxuries you want, that you could employ your massive technological edge against?

[minke19104]

Here's a good thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77644&highlight=tech+trading

I usually sell them to civs that can pay me good money (50gpt up). Otherwise if they're too backwards, I'd rather use them as training grounds for my military.

[Arrian]

Yahweh,

The main factors in getting rich, for me:

1) Palace/FP setup. Lots of low-corruption cities.
2) A solid "build" phase after (and sometimes during) the conquest of my continent.
3) GA timing
4) selling things (usually luxuries, occasionally tech) to other civs for gpt.
5) Wonders that pay upkeep for your improvements: pyramids, sun tzu, smith's.

The Great Library can also make you rich, though that's a temporary thing if you don't use the riches to improve your economic base (improve your cities). Leonardo's will save you money, but only if you are doing a lot of unit upgrading. Finally, the happiness wonders can really help, since with them and a decent number of luxuries, you won't need to use the luxury spending slider too much.

Usually you can't make much money off the AI until they have been in a representative government for a while (rep/demo) so their cashflow increases. I keep my eye out for civs that may enter a GA via war, so I can immediately sell them whatever I can to drain all their gpt gains during those 20 turns.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Well, I do all those things in a typical game... in fact, sometimes I'll get so p.o.'d that I'll quit my game, even if I'm the leading power, if, say, the Korean's get Leo's Workshop... my game just won't be "perfect" enough. And I keep building during wartime, generally... so... I guess I still don't understand. I could be spending too much money on my army?

btw: this is OT, but just a reminder to everyone: I started a new AU-proposal thread: check it out!

[minke19104]

Say you can make 2 deals to a Civ, a luxury trade or a tech trade.

The luxury trade will only net you 52 gpt,
while the tech trade will get you 82 gpt.

Should I give them tech or luxury??

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
Alright, this is a topic-related question:

How do you earn the amount of money you need to build the 25-30 galleons, or whatever, you need to cross overseas?

Do you not build certain improvements, like universities, or something?

I simply don't understand, and I'm not that stupid. I cannot arrange truly lucrative luxury trades until the industrial era (when I can pull down between 20-80 gpt for a luxury or strategic resource). Hence, I don't tend to make a grotesque amount of gpt during the medival era.

How are you people doing it?!?

Yahweh:

One thing I should note:

I play on a mod with reduced coruption

That being said, 2800 gold for an invasion is not a lot even for vanilla PTW (not modded)

Typically I fight a few early wars (wars before cav) to give me a decent sized empire with correct palace and FP placement and in a demo your available cash should skyrocket. Build during the early industrial age, getting your major infrastructure set up (factories, banks, police stations and Stock markets are a must for core cities)

On a huge map, unless you are playing with 16+ civ's should net you more than 20g per luxury, if you haven't; try to haggle a little to find out what the AI is willing to pay.

I move the palace periodically to ncerease the amount of cities that have low corrruption. I tend to build the FP in my orgional core cities so that my core cities do not have much corruption, and gradually move the palace out to make more cities productive.

One last point:
NEVER use Wealth.

[badams52]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
Well, I do all those things in a typical game... in fact, sometimes I'll get so p.o.'d that I'll quit my game, even if I'm the leading power, if, say, the Korean's get Leo's Workshop... my game just won't be "perfect" enough. And I keep building during wartime, generally... so... I guess I still don't understand. I could be spending too much money on my army?

Sigh, it has been proven that you don't need even 1 GW to win. Sounds like you have the UP syndrome.

But seriously, I build during wartime myself, but I usually trade off cities. "Okay this city had a hospital and a factory, time to produce units. Ah, you've been producing cavalry long enough, time to get you a cathedral." Then again, my armies are usually small to the numbers I see that others are putting out. Take a look at the AU206 spoiler thread, and you'll see different sizes of armies. Mine's smaller, but I take time in fighting and make sure to have the advantage when attacking or defending.

[badams52]

Originally posted by Master Zen
I sense you are turning into the dark side!

seriously, on emperor, early conquest is vital. On deity it's a matter of life and death. I cannot even imagine hoping to beat deity by being peaceful in the ancient era.

Turned. I would like to go back to civ II and see how the darkside would affect UP. I was always a retaliate-when-attacked player. Wait till the AI attacks, then take cities (sometimes all) from him because he took me out of my builder phase to back a war.

I'd respond to your idea of vital, but yxhuvud beat me to it. There was a thread here a while back about a victory on diety without ever going to war. Might have been yxhuvud, but I don't recall whose it was and couldn't find it with a quick search.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by minke19104
Say you can make 2 deals to a Civ, a luxury trade or a tech trade.

The luxury trade will only net you 52 gpt,
while the tech trade will get you 82 gpt.

Should I give them tech or luxury??

If you sell the tech, then sell it to EVERYONE who has anything to pay for it. If you don't, then the civ you sold it to will. This is why you prefer to sell during YOUR turn.

If you don't want someone (anyone) to get that tech, then make someone happy by selling the lux.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
...

One last point:
NEVER use Wealth.

... until you at least have Economics tech and you have all the units you want; or some extreme financial crunch.