Civ-Specific Strategy: English

[yxhuvud]

> Fourth, the Americans trigger GAs with Wonders more easily because they're Industrious (faster builds, on average).


Not as simple as you put it here. From the middle ages and on, your developed cities in a commercial civ should produce about the same amount as an industrial civ. It is reduced corruption vs bonus production (btw, does anyone know if the bonus production/trade is subject to corruption?).

And as you build your wonders in your developed cities, it shouldn't matter that the cities not as developed produces a little less.

Of course, I do belong in the small group of people that actually ranks commercial quite high, I feel that my empire produces so much more than it would have otherwise

Have anyone did a study comparing two identical civs, one commercial and one something else (no industrial), on identical maps, just to see just how much more *production* and money the commercial civ gets, on different sizes of the civ (say, up till OCN*2 or something similar)

[Dominae]

Originally posted by yxhuvud
> Fourth, the Americans trigger GAs with Wonders more easily
> because they're Industrious (faster builds, on average).

Not as simple as you put it here. From the middle ages and on, your developed cities in a commercial civ should produce about the same amount as an industrial civ. It is reduced corruption vs bonus production (btw, does anyone know if the bonus production/trade is subject to corruption?).

Industrious Workers allow tile improvements to be laid down faster. This in turn leads to earlier completion of infrastructure in Wonder cities (Temples, Aqueducts, etc.). So, on average, Industrious civs should be able to commence (and therefore complete) Wonder builds before non-Industrious ones. The extra production is just icing on the cake.

And as you build your wonders in your developed cities, it shouldn't matter that the cities not as developed produces a little less.

Precisely. The reduced Corruption effect of Commercial civs does not really come into play for Wonder-building, because Wonders are typically built in core cities, where Corruption is low in the first place.


Dominae

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by Dominae


It seems that England is a very situational civ, since it is only "good" at opposite ends of the spectrum (archipelago and large continents). IMO, it doesn't even excel in either of these situations.


Dominae

You're right, England isn't my favorite either (nor anyones, what I read here), but I think they are better as most people think. In one game I had a really bad starting location, but managed to clear all the huts from those little islands around, which gave me a big tech lead and lay fundament for my later victory.

Which shows you're right about the "opposite ends of the spectrum", I think England is a very "extreme" civ.

[joncnunn]

Well, the price of the English building the Great Light House will be an early GA. (Perhaps too early.)

The English would also get a GA by building the Collosus. (Much too early unless being trigered just to build more wonders.)

In my own game, I moded the Frigate so that it can't bombard while the Man of War still can. But neither is useful due to Iron Clads being right around the corner.

Comerical won't help much over coming the corruption and waste from unconnected cities. Basically, the OCN is 25% higher for Commerical civs than non-commerical.

Originally posted by SanPellegrino

I don't think so, england is the only civ starting with alphabet and pottery, so they got a good chance for the lighthouse. They fare better than others starting on an island and on a pure archipelago map, they got a huge advantage IMHO. Ok the ManOWar is of little use, but I think only because ironclads come directly after.

[yxhuvud]

> infrastructure in Wonder cities (Temples, Aqueducts, etc.). So, on average, Industrious civs should be able to commence (and therefore complete) Wonder builds before

Yes, I realize that. That is why I added the clause that it was from the middle ages and on. That industrious beats commercial productionwise in the ancient age is kinda obvious.

> The reduced Corruption effect of Commercial civs does not really come into play for Wonder-building, because Wonders are typically built in core cities, where Corruption is low in the first place.

In one way your reasoning wokrs, but on the other hand, the core in a commercial civ is bigger than a core in a noncommercial civ, meaning there is more cities in it, which leads to higher chance of having a city with really good production in the core.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by yxhuvud
Yes, I realize that. That is why I added the clause that it was from the middle ages and on. That industrious beats commercial productionwise in the ancient age is kinda obvious.

What you seem to be saying is that, in the Medieval age, when city size is maxed out and all relevant tile and city improvements are in place, there is not much difference between the Wonder-producing abilites of Industrious and Commercial civs. This is certainly obvious, but Industrious still wins out because of the extra production in Cities and Metros.

In one way your reasoning wokrs, but on the other hand, the core in a commercial civ is bigger than a core in a noncommercial civ, meaning there is more cities in it, which leads to higher chance of having a city with really good production in the core.

With a Palace core and a FP core, there is usually an abundance of productive cities that are good candidates for Wonder-building (although never enough for unit-building, it seems!). There are simply not that many Wonders available at a particular time. In my experience, Commercial civs do not grab Wonders more easily because they have a larger number productive cities.


Dominae

[joncnunn]

The +1 Industrious production per Metro is usally meaningless for wonders, but Commerical doesn't usually help wonders either because Great Wonders are almost always built either in a Palace / Forbiden Palace or else a city adjoining it which is too close for the increased OCN for Commerical civs to have any effect.

The reason Industrious civs get wonders faster than non-industrious is because the public works is 2X as fast for industrious civs, so the mines & rail road are fully built for the current size work force before the Great Wonder starts, while the non-industrious civs are often playing catch up.

Commercial civs are more likely to have an advantage on building Small Wonders & Factories in core areas that are far enough away for the Commerical traight to have noticieable effects.