A civ with 3 civ-specific traits? Can it be made balanced?

[One_Brow]

Originally posted by Calc II
TO start off, everyone having 3 traits actually DECREASES the variety. theres only 6 possible traits. i calculated possibilities long time ago, its considerably less than 2 combos.

Then you need to revise your calcultions. There are fiften possible combinations of two traits, and twenty possible combinations of three traits.

[ducki]

Originally posted by One_Brow


Then you need to revise your calcultions. There are fiften possible combinations of two traits, and twenty possible combinations of three traits.

Only if order matters, like Mil/Rel/Ind would be "different" from Rel/Ind/Mil.

Which it is not.

[Zero-Tau]

Originally posted by ducki

Only if order matters, like Mil/Rel/Ind would be "different" from Rel/Ind/Mil.

Which it is not.

Wrong. We have 6 traits: Militaristic, Industrious, Religious, Scientific, Commercial, Expansionist.

With two traits, we have 15 combinations:
MI, MR, MS, MC, ME, IR, IS, IC, IE, RS, RC, RE, SC, SE, CE.

With three, we have 20 combinations:
MIR, MIS, MIC, MIE, MRS, MRC, MRE, MSC, MSE, MCE, IRS, IRC, IRE, ISC, ISE, ICE, RSC, RSE, RCE, SCE.

[ducki]

I stand corrected.
I should have written it out instead of doing it in my head.

[SuperSlinky]

I'm playing a mod where all the civs have three traits and all of the civs have the religious trait. I did this because:

a) It is generally conceded that religious is the most powerful trait

b) When playing a non-religious civ, I though that the period of anarchy when changing governments was too long and religious improvements were too expensive.

A few people on these forums have even said that the religious trait is so powerful in relation to the others, it is broken, and it is hard to deny it. IMO, if you want to handicap yourself against the AI, play a non-religious civ. Your culture is very likely to be second rate without a lot of extra effort on your part, and each 5 turn period of anarchy when changing governments is a crushing blow to your development. If you have a well devloped 20-25 city civ, then each period of anarchy means that you will lose out on most of one tech advance and enough production to build an invasion force powerful enough to destroy one of your weaker rivals. What is more, you absolutely have to to switch governments at least twice with a minimum of three times being optimal, and you will probably want to do it at least one or two more times depending on what your strategy is.

I haven't seen a way to shorten the period of anarchy in the editor, or I probably would have just done that. I tried changing the transition government type to despotism to nerf the effect of switching governments, but like some other things I have tried in the editor, just because you can do it doesn't mean it works. In this case, I got weird behavior at the very start of the game saying I was having a revolution and I didn't know any other government types to switch to. This was probably due to having the default type and transition type flagged at the same time for despotism.

[Mazarin]

a) It is generally conceded that religious is the most powerful trait

Is it?..I thought that was industrious?

[Pyrodrew]

Is it?..I thought that was industrious?

It is industrious. He just didn't get the official memo yet.

[joncnunn]

Religious vs Industrious is hotly debated.

Myself, I give the edge to Industrious, mostly based on how long it takes to clear out Jungle playing an Industrious vs Non-Industrious.

As Industrious, all jungles inside CR's are cleared about 2/3rds of the way thru the Middle Ages.
Playing a non-Industrious civ, I'm still clearing out jungle when I get Railroads and have to convert the jungle clearing stacks into railroad building stacks and later go back and finish clearing the jungle inside CRs.

In addition, playing a non-industrious civ you need to keep 2X as many workers to keep polution under control compared to the industrious civs.

[DaveMcW]

On a purely economic basis, industrious beats religious.

But while fighting wars on deity level with a black reputation, I really appreciate the instant switching from Democracy to Monarchy and back.

[SuperSlinky]

Actually, I have never played a game without the industrious trait. It just seems like a natural choice for the player, although it seems like the AI doesn't do as much with it. I am playing a game now with my two nearest neighbors both being industrious and they don't have anything near my level of development. Likewise, we are all religious, but my cultural development is far beyond any of my rivals. I seem to be running away with this one (regent level, heavily modded), but you should have seen my last game. I was sandwiched between the Germans and the Zulu with a huge border with both of them. Ouch. I could only get about 15 cities built (large map) before I had to stop expanding and concentrate on defense. Needless to say, that was a stressful game, although I never finished it.

[Saint Marcus]

Egypt has a near-useless UU

lots of people use horsemen rushes...

and the Egyptian UU is just a cheaper horsemen.

thus you can build more units for less money, which is perfect for an ancient age horsemen(warchariot) rush.


BTW, I prefer religious over industrious, though a combination of the two (Egypt) is still my favorite.

[Sheik]

I haven't seen a way to shorten the period of anarchy in the editor

Go under the difficulty levels tab and then adjust the value that states "Max. government transition time"

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Sheik


Go under the difficulty levels tab and then adjust the value that states "Max. government transition time"

I thought that only applied to the AI Civs.....

[Sheik]

I thought that only applied to the AI Civs.....

You might be right. I will test it and see.

[joncnunn]

An even better use of the Egytian UU is to continue to build War Chariots, but upgrade them all to HorseMen before deploying them. Later on when you have Chivary, continue building WCs and upgrade them to Knights. You can even continue to build WCs and upgrade them to Calvary.

Note that you'll need to switch queue builds back to WCs everytime you discover a new tech after you have Chivary.

Just be sure to not to trigure your GA until after the Industrial era begins and the age of the defense begins.

(If you trigure your GA, you'll no longer be able to build WCs in cities that can also build Calvary.)

Also, if your using this tactic, you'll need Leo's.

Originally posted by Saint Marcus



lots of people use horsemen rushes...

and the Egyptian UU is just a cheaper horsemen.

thus you can build more units for less money, which is perfect for an ancient age horsemen(warchariot) rush.

BTW, I prefer religious over industrious, though a combination of the two (Egypt) is still my favorite.