A civ with 3 civ-specific traits? Can it be made balanced?

[aaglo]

I was wondering (and currently I'm trying out) a civilization with 3 civ-specific traits. But I'm not sure if it is a bit unbalancing.

It had 3 traits (militaristic, religious, industrious), quite expensive UU (upgraded horseman 3,2,2, requires iron & horses, base cost 5 (?)), and zero starting techs.

Is this civ unbalancing or not? If it is unbalancing, should I give other civs some other advantages?

Any comments?

[Dimension]

I would argue that Militaristic, Religious & Industrious are the three best traits in the game, so it would be very difficult to balance a civ with all three. An expensive UU isn't going to help. Egypt has a near-useless UU, and they're still great just because they're the only civ with both Religious & Industrious.

Carthage has a great UU, but that's basically making up for Commercial not being worth much. Same with the Zulus. There are several civs with bad UU's, though.

Not getting any starting techs would hurt, but the big problem is that you don't need Warrior Code to build a Barracks. The only limitation to the civ would be that you need to have a little warrior rush and extort Ceremonial Burial. In practice, that would make things even easier, because you're forced to get a good start. Once you've got Ceremonial Burial, you've got the Uber-Civ with fast roads, fast barracks and fast temples.

Then again, expensive horses might slow you down a little. You'd probably end up just using swordsmen.

[aaglo]

Yep, I know those three are the best traits available. But when I was trying to make my own civ, I could not decide which traits I should have used, so I took three.

But could three spec civ be balanced at all? I guess it starts with "no free techs", but then it becomes complicated.

Anyone else tried to make this kind of civ?

[Robber Baron]

It sounds unbalanced to me (though I've never tried it). A starting tech deficit sounds difficult, but by no means impossible, to overcome. And once you did, you would start trouncing the AI, holding advantages that would grow cumulatively over the course of the entire game.

[Jawa Jocky]

Do AI civs have 3 traits too?

[ducki]

I think if you want to add a 3rd trait to give yourself a slight advantage, give Expansionist or maybe Scientific.

Mil/Rel/Ind is far too powerful if you don't also give extra "good" traits to the AI civs.


Actually, I think Industrious should only ever be paired with 1 other trait. I think you could give any 3 of the others as long as you don't give Industrious.

[BRC]

Anyone else tried to make this kind of civ?

Ok. I confess. My first game ever, on Chieftain, was with the Americans, who were Religious, Industrious, and Militaristic.
After that game I felt bad for cheating like that, and since have not changed Civs attributes.

As for the game, it was on Chieftain. I didn't understand how this game worked very well. I don't think that I even finished the game. I really can't tell you whether it would be unbalancing, but think of it as giving China the power of Religious. Sorry I can't be of more help.

[joncnunn]

Re: A civ with 3 civ-specific traits? Can it be made balanced?

A 3 civ-trait is inhertently imbalancing in a 2 civ trait world, even if two of the three traights are Commerical and Expansionist. I dought it can be fixed without giving all the civs a 3rd trait.

Originally posted by aaglo
I was wondering (and currently I'm trying out) a civilization with 3 civ-specific traits. But I'm not sure if it is a bit unbalancing.

It had 3 traits (militaristic, religious, industrious), quite expensive UU (upgraded horseman 3,2,2, requires iron & horses, base cost 5 (?)), and zero starting techs.

Is this civ unbalancing or not? If it is unbalancing, should I give other civs some other advantages?

Any comments?

[alva]

Why not give the AI 3 traits, and yourself only 2 (maybe make all AI civs industrious)

Could be something to try for the AU mod?

[joncnunn]

Giving all the AI civs 3 traits that includes Industrious while yourself only 2 would increase the challenge.

I guess the American AI could get Commercial as the 3rd, Eyptian & French AI could get Military as the 3rd, and Persian & Chinese AI could get Religious as the 3rd.

Originally posted by alva
Why not give the AI 3 traits, and yourself only 2 (maybe make all AI civs industrious)

Could be something to try for the AU mod?

[One_Brow]

One thought on balancing this three-trait civ:

No unique unit (or at least, no UU that triggers a Golden Age). If you want a GA, you have to get it through Wonders.

Actually, you could also balance by a whole slew of "negative" UUs. They all have tghe same stats as normal units, but have an extra requirement or cost more.

[Nor Me]

Is some of this getting familiar?
Maximizing Civilization Diversity (Addind a 3rd Trait)

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by alva
Why not give the AI 3 traits, and yourself only 2 (maybe make all AI civs industrious)

Could be something to try for the AU mod?

I am not really sure that you could acomplish this unless you played with an exclusive civ, even then I am not sure that you would want to.

I have played scenerios with all civ's having 3 specific traits and they were very balanced (note: No 3 trait combo's with industrious, religious, militaristic or Scientific though)

[Zero]

TO start off, everyone having 3 traits actually DECREASES the variety. theres only 6 possible traits. i calculated possibilities long time ago, its considerably less than 2 combos.

also no starting tech is hardly a weakness. especially on pangeatic map. I have a civ called forces of darkness. It only builds tribal warrior(warrior), shadow warriors(swordmen) and death knights(knight) (modded unit graphics), aggression level 6 and three traits mil/rel/exp so it acts like an barbarian civ. even w/o starting tech and lack of variety in units. it kicks major ass.

[Zero]

Check this civ out:

Aschens (name was ripped from race from stargate)

No traits!

4 UUs - Jags, Rider, Hwacha, panzer (jags dont trigger UU)

starting tech: literacy, sanitaition, military tradition, integrated defense (you dont get tech until you reach that age), its bit different from sci trait since no cheap library plus tech is predetermined AND isnt first tech from that age. (for example integrated defense is ususally last tech from modern age.)