PTW - New Stuff, Mysteries, and Thoughts

[Theseus]

I just started a game as Carthage... yuck to the early UU. I'll start something as militaristic, and see what I think.

[Theseus]

OK, Celts again, just to check for things military.

BTW, does everyone realize that you can start researching on the first turn you've built your first town?

[DaveMcW]

Yes, you lose 2 science if you don't pick something to research on your first turn.

[Master Marcus]

combat DOESN'T seem so changed to me so far. The new medieval infantry unit ( btw perfectly fitted within the chain of units and upgrades ) seems to be slightly weakier than a Knight at offense ( both 4). I'm playing Spain right now, non-militaristic, and the promotion ratio is near the same as 1.29f games. Perhaps GL are even harder to produce than before, too soon to tell...perhaps 1 less / game so far. However cannon/artillery success ratio is a bit better ( before the AI builds Civil Defense in late game ). Have you heard the new artillery's sounds coded? cool.....

[Killerdaffy]

Originally posted by Jawa Jocky
After losing a few Emperor level starts, I tucked my tail between my legs and started a game on Monarchy.

I was pretty close to that point after I got run over early (on Emperor) a couple of times but finally got a good start with the Ottomans: Sipahi ROCK! The Babs had everything full of fortified Musketeers but the Sipahi slice through them like a hot knife through butter. I hope to invade the other big continent before the Persians get Nationalism - the game shouldn't last long in that case.

After playing the Vikings I'm not totally convinced by the Berserks just yet. If you can't use the amphibious ability they are quite expensive for what they offer and since they can't pull back they will still take losses regularly.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Jawa Jocky
After losing a few Emperor level starts, I tucked my tail between my legs and started a game on Monarchy.

I'm playing my 4th PTW game (2 tiny; 2 standard; all emperor). I haven't spent much time in the editor. I don't know if something obvious has changed with tech costs.

But something has changed. Could the AI have improved on terrain improvements? Build orders? Tech trading?

I don't know what it is, but an SP game is way more challenging. My emperor games feel much more like deity under 1.29f. I had gotten to the point where a peaceful emperor game was possible with all but the most painful of starts; no more -- I'm beginning to believe that early, aggressive warfare is a must at PTW emperor (as opposed to a good idea, but not a requirement). I haven't playd a monarch game yet, but I may soon. The AI in SP has so far either kicked my ass or put up a good challenge.

Thank you, Soren.

Catt

[ducki]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
Yes, you lose 2 science if you don't pick something to research on your first turn.

Hang on there...
Are you saying that if I wait for the "What shall we research" popup, I'm losing out?

Do I need to manually hit F6 as soon as I found my town to avoid losing a turn of research?

[Killerdaffy]

Originally posted by ducki


Hang on there...
Are you saying that if I wait for the "What shall we research" popup, I'm losing out?

Do I need to manually hit F6 as soon as I found my town to avoid losing a turn of research?

Yes, kind of annoying but early on every turn counts.

[Jawa Jocky]

Originally posted by Theseus
I just started a game as Carthage... yuck to the early UU. I'll start something as militaristic, and see what I think.

I don't like having an early UU either. And this one is expensive and prevents you from being able to make the cheaper spearmen.

However, if you have raging hordes of barbs you will be amazed by how many attacks these UU can defend. I never lost one to a barb and I had up to 20 horsemen attacking just two defenders. I ended up with a ton of elite units too.

[Minmaster]

yea like many of us like to do, build some early UUs and dont use them until way later when u want a golden age...attack a badly wounded unit and u have a good chance of winning even with outdated UU

[Arrian]

Wow, having read through this, I will probably drop down to Monarch for my first few PtW attempts. The "minor tweaks" to the AI appear to have worked.

I noticed a couple of people mentioning a possible change to the promotion of units... is that true, Soren? If so, the Dark Side has been weakened.

-Arrian

[jshelr]

I've not had much problem with the AI tech rate on Emperor, based on one game's experience. But, as always, I didn't try to compete until Universities were in place. By that time I was the big guy and had ToE in my pocket as well. The addition of stock exchanges downgrades the importance of Banks as a rush item in favor of completing the university network -- does everyone agree?

What I did notice, or imagine, is smarter AI diplomacy. Again, it's too early to generalize, but I liked it from a competitive viewpoint.

Arrian -- I would not bother to go back to Monarch. It's not that big a change IMO.

I did like the celtic UU despite its cost. Damn thing is a holy terror and just ripped apart neighbors without appreciable losses.

[twilight]

Hm. I don't know what's the difference between the difficulty levels exactly, but I fear it has to do with some more diplomatic and military challange, so I play always Deity and turn off the big boni for the ai.

But PTW is hard I must say. Never had this problem in CivIII but now my old strategy of ignoring Science for treasure and buying or stealing techs areN't as good as they should be. In later games they wanted very very much money for the develpoments. For example 11.000 Goldpieces only for one. Okay, I play a special mod with 10 rounds per development at least and more taxes so my nation of 15-20 cities gave me 1500 GP per round and perhaps the civs were influenced by that but when I got a new one, I tried to sell them to the civs but they never had any money. Okay, funny thing, that many civ gave me 100GP/turn, a couple of times later I had 2500/round. But there is a little difference between 11.000 and 100 for 20 turns. Not quite fair. Hm, they gave me all they had. The Civs must save money!

[ducki]

Originally posted by jshelr
Arrian -- I would not bother to go back to Monarch. It's not that big a change IMO.

I agree. Just be ready for a challenge, don't expect to buy workers for 30 gold, and assume that the AI will be more productive than you are used to.

I actually graduated up to Monarch at the same time I installed PtW and it sure is tough, but manageable.

I'm not getting many/any wonders, but I'm having fun.

[Harovan]

I haven't completed a PTW game yet, only played a couple of ancient ages to warm up, and I must say that the game is a bit more difficult now. Arrian has to say bye bye to worker buying and the military tactic of the AI and especially of the barbarians has been improved. The other stuff like oscillating wars and extorting techs and cities for peace remained the same. I think there's no need to downgrade in difficulty level though.

What really surprised me is, that the AIs trade contacts more offensive. I often had leaders in my foreign screen, units of which I never had seen, and I also did not trade for this contact. Must be one of the AI, that sold the contact with me to other AIs. I had this not a single time in the original Civ3. I first thought, it was a bug.

Overall SP works a charm , but MP ... ... oh dear! The old "I hope they fix it in the patch" remains valid.