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**vmxa1** · October 24, 2002, 20:03

You do not say what level you are currently playing and what type of problems you are encountering.
First thing I see often in ne players is that workers are automated from the beginning or nealy so. Look at Crackers starting move on CFC to get the best moves to make and why workers must be manage (at least untill RR).
If you are at warlord or even regent, you can out perform the AI. You can grow as fast or faster and create better cities. This means you can get wonders and hold a tech lead.
So what is happening in your games?
One thread here has some links to post with strategies, that could help.
Post a save of where you seem to get bogged down, bettter even to have a much ealier to accompany it.

**chanser69** · October 24, 2002, 20:12

yeah I usually manage my workers until I end up capturing so many that I don't know what to do with them all and I've done all the basic things like link all my cities together... but do you suggest I always control them? as in irrigating everything?

the main problems I seem to be having is huge corruption levels. Even in a republic if a city is more than 6 tiles away it experiences huge corruption and I have to build a courthouse... now that I have both a courthouse and a barracks (because I must expand and try and secure as much land as possible) than I keep having to lower my science rate which is why I am falling so far behind in tech.

Another thing is that wars seem to be very lengthy... like it takes forever to take down a civ. They keep producing just as many units as I do and the only advantage I seem to have is that mine are all veteran from the start and that I have stockpiled a whole bunch before attacking (a new strategy I am employing in this current game which seems to help me at least gain a foothold on wars rather than get beat down with a stick).

Look at Crackers starting move on CFC

What do you mean by this? I don't know what CFC is or who Cracker is. And as for the strategy links I think i will check those out too. Thanks for posting so soon.

**Theseus** · October 24, 2002, 20:28

Hi, and welcome to 'poly.

There are lots of threads and people around here who can be very helpful in getting you up to speed.

Try starting here:

Apolyton Civilization Site

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59216

Start with the "Winning Early" thread.

Look for info on breaking Civ2 habits... irrigation is generally a no-no, for instance.

CFC is Civ Fanatics Center, another forum, and Cracker is a wizard, especially at the early game, who hangs out both there and here. He prepared a masterly analysis of early game decisions / strategy, which is here:

Page not found – CivFanatics

http://www.civfanatics.com/doc/civ3/cracker/civ3_starts/opening_plays.htm

**chanser69** · October 24, 2002, 20:36

awwww thank you so much... exactly what I needed all in one post haha.

Thank you very much Theseus, I think thats what I need to do... break civ 2 habits :P. And my other weakness is indeed the early game. Thank you very much and if this doesn't help I will post back. I am in your gratitude

**vmxa1** · October 24, 2002, 21:35

Ok you have the link now.
No I did not mean irrigation of all tiles. I only irrigate when it is required for growth, else mine. Anyway I could not know if that was an issue for you and maybe it is not, just that it is common to see people irrigate instead of and automate workers. You never did say what the level is so I do not know if they should be out in front or not, but if you have decent start location and do a good job of expanding and improvements, they should not be out producing you on Warlord or even Regent. Good luck.

**ducki** · October 25, 2002, 04:23

chanser -

Here's a bit of advice from a relative newbie - I am only on Regent right now...

Do not start out with Industrious civs...

You'll be spoiled and end up missing out on the other civs because you don't develop the skill to play with slower workers...that's the boat I'm in now, and every time I try to start a game with a non-Industrious civ, I completely blow the early game and realize halfway to the Middle Ages that I've been working at half-speed.

So, try out multiple civs. Learn how to compensate for slow workers. Let the fast workers be a luxury, not a need, and I think you'll get more out of the game.

Not really "strategy", but related.

**chanser69** · October 25, 2002, 11:24

thank you very much ducki,

your strategy is very much appreciated and i see well how I could easily get attached to the fast workers

. I spent 5 hours reading strategy on CFC. 4 of those 5 hours was about the early game (your first city and figuring what the power tiles are and developing them effectively. Very interesting stuff. I also looked up war tactics and some anti-corruption tactics too. I think I may be able to fight wars better now and avoid them better too. Also with corruption I will try and get my cities towards WLTK day and another strategy one guy had was to build a forbidden palace in your main city and build a regular palace in the trouble areas (as you can move only your palace). Other than that... lower empire sizes and trying to figure out how far is too far to expand and getting the early "foot in the door" so to speak is what I need to work on.

I played a quick test-game of my new knowledge last night before going to bed and I was able to identify the power squares (cow that needed a mine and a plains with wheat that needed some irrigation and as soon as i got it... BAM my city was growing and pumping out settlers like crazy... I wasn't paying attention and I ended up with an extra warrior and i sent him to explore... found a warrior + settler group... kicked their ass and got me 2 FREE workers!! Sure it started a war... but when they have 1 puny city and I have 3 developed ones with more on the way, they will be begging me to stop won't they? Hehe.

Alright, well I plan on starting a new game today and hopefully I will get somewhere. If you guys have more strategies, like ducki's for example, about not the early game... but the establishing yourself, expanding, etc. part of the game then please post

.

Thank you for being so supportive

**ducki** · October 25, 2002, 13:08

Oh, also, the Must Read threads on Theseus' link are incredible.

And my rule of thumb is to mine everything I think I can actually work(Shielded grass, cows, horses, wheats) UNTIL I start getting close to either Republic or Monarchy - then I'll send some workers back to irrigate the tiles that will be most productive and will free up citizens to work mountains and hills. Very early game, mine as much as you can use while emphasizing a road network. Middle Ancient to Late Ancient, start irrigating some tiles in preparation for a real government.

Also, the Japan GOTM on CFC had a great analysis of how and why to develop what in your first city or two - things that are very very micro-managerial - on the order of "don't have your worker cross a river only to cross back, you've wasted two turns" sort of thing. Great stuff.

This forum has so much great stuff that I can't begin to direct you - which reminds me, try the Apolyton Directory, which has links to much of the stuff in the "Must Read" thread. Don't hesitate to ask questions, I've had nothing but love from this community. These guys are great and will even download your game saves and give you tips, etc.

**Theseus** · October 27, 2002, 15:27

Originally posted by chanser69
I wasn't paying attention and I ended up with an extra warrior and i sent him to explore... found a warrior + settler group... kicked their ass and got me 2 FREE workers!! Sure it started a war... but when they have 1 puny city and I have 3 developed ones with more on the way, they will be begging me to stop won't they? Hehe.

"And the winner for fastest conversion to the Dark Side is..."

(be careful with Warrior-bopping though; I usually try to have 2:1 on attack)

**Jaybe** · October 27, 2002, 18:45

Originally posted by ducki
...

Do not start out with Industrious civs...

You'll be spoiled and end up missing out on the other civs because you don't develop the skill to play with slower workers. ...

So, try out multiple civs. Learn how to compensate for slow workers. ...

That's so true of Civ3. Whatever civ you get in the habit of using, you get shocked when you begin a game with different civ characteristics, be it scientific, religious, industrious, ...

**chanser69** · October 29, 2002, 11:18

Yeah I know what you mean... I'm playing as Militaristic and Expansionistic and enjoying even those benefits. I will try as much as possible to not get "addicted" to specific benefits. As for the conversion to the dark side... I am coming from a not being able to win background... I will take out civs early if that means that I will have one less person to face :P cruel as it is. Once I get good or moderate, then I will let them live to make things interesting

.

As for the game I'm playing now, I'm doing pretty good I think. It's about 1800-1900AD (can't remember right now) and I own my continent, have for a long time... and I am trying to figure out how to wage an overseas war and I am probably going to look up tactics but I think I kinda figured it out a bit. My plan is to get a bunch of destroyers guarding 2 transports... plus another destroyer guarding an aircraft carrier... bring them to shore... start bombing the city until its ready... land my forces that are a combination of artillery, tanks and infantry... the artillery will weaken the defences... the tanks will stomp them out... and then I will defend with the infantry. I am just about to enter modern age.... and i'm 1800-1900AD.. am i doing good so far? or better at least.

Also another thing is that they keep trying to friendly establish cities on the little spaces on my continent where there is no culture. I have tried to put units on the shore but they go around them... and I can't afford having more cities because the corruption will go up. Any ideas on that?

**vmxa1** · October 29, 2002, 12:39

It is hard to say about how to deal with the settler bit as it would depend on what the land looked like. First thing is no map trading, until you have the whole area locked up, or you want them to come in. If you are rated as strong compared to them they will be less likely to cross you culture border. If you can not block the moves, you really can only either kill them or flip them. Did you ask them to leave and if so was there a way for them to go that did not improve their position?

**ducki** · October 29, 2002, 13:10

On the note of an overseas war -
Airports+Rail = faster reinforcements than transports.

Yes, you need to Transport you initial invasion force, but those cities you take will be very unproductive.

Try to either capture one with an airport or rush an airport once you have a beachhead city.

Then, whenever a city on your main island finishes a unit, railway gets it to the airport without using any movement so you can Airlift him to the beachhead city on the same turn.

On immigrant towns -
And if your culture is strong, sometimes I'll let the AI settle in "my" territory(early game only) while I keep producing either culture buildings or wonders. With good culture (temples everywhere at the very least, from the very earliest possible time) you should be able to easily flip one or two errant immigrant towns.

With culture to weak to flip or too many immigrant towns to flip? Dunno. Early game I see these towns as the AI helping me out. Late game... well, by the Industrial Era I try to have my borders unbroken and unflanked.

If you like, some of the guys here have been helping me with my first Regent game with some really good tips, pointers, strategy, etc.
The thread is "Ducki Went Regent... How'm I doin'"
Screenshots and SAVs galore, both from me and more experienced civvers trying to show me how to do better.

GL

**vmxa1** · October 29, 2002, 13:19

Yes a save wold make it easier to see.

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