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Does The Ai Cheat?!?!

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  • Does The Ai Cheat?!?!

    Well, does it?

    I can hold my own on Monarchy and expand just as fast as the computer (usually faster). However, when I crank it up to diety I resign after a few turns only to find that the computer has created three or four settlers in an EXTREAMLY short period of time.
    Does the AI have some unfair advantage over the player on diety? Or am I overlooking some vital expansion strategy?
    I could understand if one civ expands a little faster, or in one game an AI civ races way ahead due to luck...but I'm seeing that EVERY game, EVERY civ expands REALLY fast. How are they doing it?

  • #2
    Units costs are reduced for the AI as you move up difficulty levels. That, at base, is what makes it more difficult (along with some other things, too). They can expand more quickly, build more, etc etc.
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    • #3
      I know the ai cheats because it always seems to know well in advance strategic resources are. That's why they go settling happy and found cities in what seem like obscure places.
      signature not visible until patch comes out.

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      • #4
        From CivFanatics Info Center for Civ3 (I'm at work now):
        At Deity level, you get only 1 content citizen while the AI (who is playing at Regent level, happiness wise), gets 2 content citizens. The AI needs only 60% of the standard number of shields to produce something.

        FREE Units: The AIs receive FREE units as soon as they build their first city on Monarch, Emperor, and Deity levels.
        * On Monarch level, the AI usually gets a free Warrior unit.
        * On Emperor level, the AI usually gets 2 or 3 free units. In Sman's experiment, the AI got 2 warriors and 1 archer.
        * On Deity level, the AI usually gets 4 or 5 free units, such as 2 archers, 1 spearman, and 1 worker.
        * The free units the AI gets appear to be random ancient units.

        ---
        It's not "cheating", it's the level you are playing. If you want to play "even", play Regent level. Of course, the AI will always be playing by somewhat different rules than you or I (e.g., knowing the location of each and every unit). But hey, the poor bloke can't think.

        JB

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        • #5
          Lol, just have a look at the Editor!

          Here's what the AI starts with at Deity:

          8 best available Defenders (might be Hoplite for Greece!)
          4 best available Attackers (might be War Chariot for Egypt!)

          2 Settlers
          3 Workers

          They can have 16 Units without paying any support cost.
          They can have 4 Additional Units per City without paying any support cost.

          Anarchy is limited to 2 Turns.
          Their Cost Factor is 6. (10 for Human Player)

          They agree to a trade with an AI even if they have to give them something with 1.6 times the value of what they get.

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          • #6
            Nah, Egypt lacks The Wheel from beginning and can't start with WC's, but the Azetcs surely start with Jags and militaristic civs with Archers. As far as I can see the other facts are correct.

            The AI gets big bonuses (note that's not a cheat but an advantage) on Deity and smaller bonuses on Emperor and Monarch. Regent is the "fair" level. On Warlord and Chieftain it gets a handicap, i.e. it needs more shields to build a unit than the human player needs.

            Who calls these advantage cheats, can with the same logic call anyone who wins at Chieftain and Warlord a cheater.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sir Ralph
              Who calls these advantage cheats, can with the same logic call anyone who wins at Chieftain and Warlord a cheater.
              Bingo. Well said.

              -Arrian
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              • #8
                The AI constantly cheats in many ways, and there have been scores of threads detailing the ways it does it.

                It teleports ocean-going galleys around the globe. It gives freebie settlers to the nearest military unit if another civ (the human) razes a city. It is omniscient - all seeing, and really doesn't need to trade maps. It gangs up on the human. It gets factory-level production without having to build factories. Lots of stuff. All bad.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Coracle
                  The AI constantly cheats in many ways, and there have been scores of threads detailing the ways it does it.

                  It teleports ocean-going galleys around the globe. It gives freebie settlers to the nearest military unit if another civ (the human) razes a city. It is omniscient - all seeing, and really doesn't need to trade maps. It gangs up on the human. It gets factory-level production without having to build factories. Lots of stuff. All bad.

                  And yet, any decent Civ player can STILL win the game.

                  You complain on one page that the AI cheats. Then you complain on another that they are dumb.

                  What level do you play at Coracle?
                  Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tuberski
                    You complain on one page that the AI cheats. Then you complain on another that they are dumb.

                    What level do you play at Coracle?
                    With increasing difficulty levels, the AI should be playing with better tactics, not lots of hidden advantages (suchas knowing the locations of troops/resources).
                    Up the Irons!
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Coracle
                      The AI constantly cheats in many ways, and there have been scores of threads detailing the ways it does it.

                      It teleports ocean-going galleys around the globe. It gives freebie settlers to the nearest military unit if another civ (the human) razes a city. It is omniscient - all seeing, and really doesn't need to trade maps. It gangs up on the human. It gets factory-level production without having to build factories. Lots of stuff. All bad.
                      Is that why you keep whining about not having a cheat mode, to level the playing field? Are you like the A I and can't think and adapt? Surely your brain alone can defeat the AI without resorting to cheating.

                      gangs up on the humans? I've seen lots of ai wars. the key is to trick (pay) the ai to fight each other before they pay to fight you. production increase? duh, its in the editor, on each level above regeant, aI gets about 10% discount per. big whoop. can't hang, don't play that level. freebie settlers? whoop-de-damn-do. They need all the help they can get. Omnisciient-I don't care, I'm ominiscient myself, uselful sometimes, but othertimes, do I really want to know? definately not, some people are just sick.


                      The AI doesn't cheat (too much). it is just playing by different rules than the human on upper levels. Just like you play with different ruiles on chieftain, slanted toward the human.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Coracle
                        It teleports ocean-going galleys around the globe. It gives freebie settlers to the nearest military unit if another civ (the human) razes a city.
                        Bull twaddle.
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                        • #13
                          Well I feel much better now
                          I was thinking that there was some serious flaw in my strategies since I couldn't produce cities as fast as the AI. If the AI gets special advantages at Monarchy and up that's fine as long as gamers are aware of it. Trying to match the AI's expansion is VERY frustrating when you don't realize they are getting a bonus to increase difficulty.

                          I think the information about the difficulty levels and the corrisponding AI bonuses should be listed somewhere...like in the readme or manual. That way players understand the higher levels are for a real *against the odds* challange and are not just based on high AI efficency and good tactics.

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                          • #14
                            You can see and tweak this in the editor, although this would make the difficulty levels pointless.

                            You still can beat the AI's expansion without war, on any level up to emperor, because the AI builds a lot of military units, and builds settlers ineffective, meaning it doesn't coordinate and optimize shield and food production. THAT are the really stupid things the AI does, and not Coracle's infamous wandering settlers (which are normal). If you optimize settler production with units in the gaps, you still can build a decent army while concentrating on settlers. That's important at emperor, because the probability of sneak attacks is higher than on lower levels. Don't build any improvements and wonders (even granaries only if the food production is bad). Let the corrupt 1-shield cities produce settlers, once they have at least 2 grassland tiles available. 30 such cities make a settler each turn.

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                            • #15
                              Sir Ralph, I beg to differ...

                              I tried a few dozen games starts on Emperor and found that the AI had one huge advantage that no one seems to have mentioned yet: starting location.

                              I have seen the AI pump out 4 settlers for each one I can manage and the difference is their capital's location and resources. Try and compete with a city that has 4 food tiles (grain, cattle or game) when the best you have is a grassland tile on a river.

                              Other than that, I can hold my own against the world at any level. But only 1 game in 100 has me in a good starting location.
                              "Not the cry, but the flight of the wild duck,
                              leads the flock to fly and follow"

                              - Chinese Proverb

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